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Taking ownership of their own learning: mentoring on Year 2 of the ECF programme. The ECF Staffroom podcast speaks to Kate Atkin, Deputy Headteacher at Balby Central Primary Academy in Doncaster.
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Elaine Long
Welcome to The ECF Staffroom. I'm Elaine Long.
Mark Quinn
And I am Mark Quinn.
Elaine Long
We are programme leaders for the UCL Early Career Teacher Development Programme. Why are we in the staffroom? We are here because this is where the best professional learning conversations always take place. This is where problems can be aired bluntly and where solutions can be explored.
Mark Quinn
Over the course of this series, we will hear the voices of different colleagues as they come in the ECF Staffroom. We will hear from early career teachers themselves and from the mentors and induction tutors who support them. We will talk about all things ECF, the challenges and the joys. So why don't you enjoy a coffee with us, perhaps even grab a biscuit and sit down to half an hour of ECF Staffroom, chat.
Good morning, Kate. It's very kind of you to join us for this. We're talking about your role as a mentor, particularly on year two of our programme for the ECF, and as we all know, year two is all about practitioner enquiry, the whys and wherefores. So, so my first question for you is for you, what is practitioner enquiry.
Kate Atkin
I thought about this long and hard Mark and considered different elements and I think the thing that came through most of it for me having done some of the mentor work so far, was that that is about the opportunity for the ECTs to sort of take the chance to develop their own practise and explore something in a little more detail that sort of more relevant to their context, relevant to their cohort, and I think through doing the training from the ECT sort of side of reading the handbook, it's about that process that we're going through, and actually it's that opportunity to really step back and think and allow time to reflect and to research, and I think maybe something is more experienced teachers we've stopped doing and actually ask questions about our own practise and accept that there's not always the right way, that it’s okay to stop mid-way and go, hang on a minute, I need to adapt and I need to make tweak and I think that's for me the practitioner enquiry bit is that opportunity to explore, to investigate all the data, not just the formative and summative bits that come through, but then the important bit for this process for me is that stopping, thinking of re-evaluating where we go next?
Mark Quinn
That's right. So stopping and looking up.
Kate Atkin
Yes
Mark Quinn
To some extent. So. So, right. So with that in mind, why do you think that practitioner enquiry might be especially appropriate for ECTs in their second year because of course that's the choice that we’ve done on the UCL programme, we've made this happen for ECTs in the second year, so why might not that be particularly appropriate for them?
Kate Atkin
I think it's massively important, I’ve supported the same ECTs through year one and two. I think in year one there's such a wealth of information that comes to them and there's so much knowledge that they learn and research that they find out about that actually the second year is the opportunity for them to explore it within their own context, and for some, for example, my ECT in school, it's their opportunity to explore an area of interest as well. So she's found a particular interest in scaffolding and looking at that support in SEND and actually it's the opportunity to take all the thinking from last year, so she's come to me and talked about, for example, group work and said, how can I use the information that I have there to then pop it into practise within my own context for this specific group?
I think for the ECTs that are in their second year, it's about that ownership and through the mentor sessions and I know Elaine saw one that I did, it's been the opportunity for the ECTs to really grow in confidence and almost take some ownership over their own learning as opposed to it being quite heavily structured through the ECF framework.
Mark Quinn
Okay. So I'm going to put you on the spot now because you talked about the questions, the topics that your ECT was particularly interested in. So can you tell us a little bit more about the question or questions you're ECT did explore or is exploring, what process did you go through to get to those questions?
Kate Atkin
In the first term, we looked at the use of music for a particular group of children and how music could be explored to support them with their thinking, mainly because she wanted to look at that sensory side for SEND, and I think she needed to explore that initially and recognise that it was a little bit overwhelming for the group and actually we took that and I allowed her it to do it to take a through the process to sort of recognise that she'd got to sort of develop a more defying question and use the small steps that were there.
So we've now sort of redefined the question, redefined the thinking, and we've gone back to looking at actually what scaffolding looks like because she's found this is a really good avenue this year for this group of children, and we're looking at what scaffolding looks like for just 4 children when they're doing writing over a shorter period, and I think I have to allow that opportunity to almost explore a question she felt was relevant to then realise actually she'd gone way too far and that the enquiry could be much more narrow, could be much more focussed and actually I bumped into yesterday in the corridor she went, I get it now, I see what you did, and I was like, Yeah, I wasn't being cruel when I said, well, you go and come back to me, talk to me about it, and she said, Now, this is our first week back, and she said, I've already planned different bits and I've used not only what I'm doing in my enquiry for my writing, but I used it elements in my geography session as well. So I can see now how I can make the links between learning.
Mark Quinn
That's amazing actually, and it's just lovely to hear you use the word we so often because we do invite, as you know, mentors and ECTs to collaborate a little bit more in this year, all
the way through the materials we'll be we gently suggest to mentors that they might want the different ways that they might collaborate with their ECTs, being fully mindful of the pressures that mentors are on in the school and all the other roles that they have within their schools, we don't make it, you know, an absolute thing that we must do. So can you say a few words, maybe more, Kate, about how you've supported your ECT and perhaps how you've engaged with them a little bit with their enquiry?
Kate Atkin
Yeah. So we do regular catch up some regular meetings where the ECT and I sort of touch base, she has moved into a new year group this year. She's moved up to year 5 and I think we had to initially establish all that learning done in the first year could be used in the second year, and a big point of support for this year is about reflecting it back and taking it back, she’s really reflective practitioner, which is fabulous, but it's about using the materials that were there and saying to her, Come on now, Do you remember we did this and we looked at this research barrier on barriers to learning, and she'd say, Yeah, yeah, come on, let's go get it, it's not a big piece, let's just read it together again, let's refocus, let's reset. I'm not going to go and read a massive book and I think it's been that little touch base that she's needed, but she's also working alongside a very dynamic and very experienced maths lead.
So I've sort of done a bit of double edge and said he's amazing and said to him, Look, she doesn't need you to mentor her this year. What she needs is she needs to learn to find her own voice, and I've just talked about all these sessions we've done, we step forward, we step back, come on, you're going to now do this alongside your experience co-partner that you've got here.
Initially she found that really hard, and I'd say to him, I need you to step back now and let her find her voice a bit. Now we have gone through a term and a half, it's been lovely to watch him sort of complement each other and she's still very quiet within their pairing, she's found that confidence to say, I think I've got something for that and for me that's been a real big turning point for her, and she's now saying to him, I've got something you could read about that if that's any help. For me, that's been fabulous because she sharing that learning now. So the next step will be to get it, to do it. Wider than that, she takes on sort of subject leader responsibility and things like that.
Mark Quinn
That brings joy to my heart, Kate, to hear you describe it in that way. We said all along with this programme that obviously it's really important, an ECF programme to help retain teachers in the classroom but we also firmly believe that the best way of doing that is to let these new teachers see how they autonomy in their own classrooms, how they can grow, how they can, as you said, find their own voice because they're more likely to stay, we know that teaching is such a hard job, they put so many hours into it but teachers will put those hours into a job that they feel has meaning and, you know, that they have some autonomy, it’s extraordinary to hear you phrase it in a way you have.
So maybe you feel you've already answered the question, Kate, but maybe in a nutshell or in sort of higher level terms, can you say what you and maybe particularly your ECT have learnt from this process, this process of enquiry in the second year?
Kate Atkin
I think it's probably reminded me of all the things I used to really enjoy about being a classroom teacher and that opportunity, it is that asking and the opportunity to stop. I think with new curriculums that we've brought in place and with catching up from COVID and everything that comes in, it's really the enquiry sort of approach has given me the opportunity to step back alongside the ECT and say, let's just stop, stop, let's question what we are doing, let's look at the research again and say, where can we find something that will guide us on this? Let's look at a really small next step as opposed to saying it's a brought in approach, it's just a small next step that we can implement, and also the opportunity to do it frequently and not think I've got to commit to this to a year.
We've put ourselves in almost little milestones and said, right, it’s half term last week, we did a checkpoint there, we'll do another checkpoint at this point, so that it's not carrying on for carrying on sake.
Mark Quinn
Yeah. It's nice to hear you talk about that rhythm that you've built into it so that your ECT knows that you will be returning to this, that they’ll' get support at different times. Obviously, the support that they get in the second year is continuous, but not as frequent because obviously they've got more time face to face in the classroom.
I think you said so much about the difference that the enquiries have made to your ECT. Maybe there's something more you want to add to that. I'd also be really interested to hear, Kate, what difference this has made to you as a mentor on this programme, given that you are an experienced teacher already, given that you already have other roles within your school, beyond your school, and, you know, even in some modest way, you know, how has this process made a difference to you?
Kate Atkin
I think for the ECT in school, it's developed her confidence, and like I said earlier, I think it's allowed her to find a voice and recognise that she's not the ECT anymore, she's not the new teacher, she's a fully established member of staff, and actually she's got her own little thing to bring now and she's got ownership of that element and she controls it and she can share that finding with a year group partner.
So I think for me, her biggest learning points of a confidence within herself and to give her a real exact focus on what she's working on and what she wants to get better ar. For me as a mentor, I think it slowed me down a little bit. I'm quite notorious for working a hundred miles an hour. I know that. I know that's probably my own fault, but actually it's meant that I've stopped and I reflected and I've had to slow my thinking down and think, Well, actually, what difference will this make to the children ? But also it's working for my ECT, but actually what can I take away from this practitioner enquiry to not just make me stop and think about anything I introduce, but for example, for subject leaders across school, I've talked to my head about is there any way we can use some of this thinking here to make them think at a deeper level so that they understand that process and they've stock points and that questioning as well.
I think because a mentor is possibly made me delve into her practise a little bit more and also reflect on what I would have done and what she does and opened up that conversation because I think having been a NQT mentor a while ago, this practitioner enquiry, I've only picked alongside her. So she'll come to me and share the data and share the findings and share thinking, and I think it's meant that I've had to put myself in her shoes and really reflect on a different level and sort of think from two different angles. It's been really interesting to do.
Mark Quinn
I think you've given us a definition there almost of what it means to be an educative mentor to work alongside, as you say, sometimes walk in the shoes of your ECT and they in yours I guess. Thank you so much for that. Also you tantalising us with some examples of how enquiry might be spreading to other parts of your school as well. You may well work in a place where that's as a normal thing. Lots of schools do use practitioner enquiry as part of the professional learning programme. It's not the case in every school, but we do hope at least that by sort of dropping this little pebble into the pond of your schools that the ripples might reverberate outwards.
Kate, it's been lovely talking to you and thank you so much for the work that you put into your mentoring and the other roles you perform for us on the ECF programme.
Kate Atkin
Thank you Mark.
Elaine Long
So I'm going to talk to you a little bit now, Kate, about your role as a facilitator. It's been so inspiring listening to you talk about your role as a mentor, particularly that you reference voice and enjoyment and autonomy because I know when Mark set out to write the programme, they were some of the ambitions that he had for our ECTs.
So if I can ask you, I know you wear about 20 different hats, but if I can ask you now to take off your mentor hat and put on your facilitator hat. I'm just going to ask you some questions about that. My first question is how did you support other mentors working with ECTs on practitioner enquiry?
Kate Atkin
I think it's through using the resources from UCL, ECF and using the Extend, and I think by doing this sort of more online community, obviously Elaine you’ve observed one, it was an opportunity not for me to be the one that was the font of all knowledge, but actually the opportunities to professionals to sort of collaborate together and share thinking.
I know in my last session that we had that one of the ladies step forward and offered a bit of guidance to a different lady because she'd got the expertise. So I think from a facilitator side, it's been the opportunity to almost talk them through the process, so that they get that level of understanding as well, and because within my mentor group, I've got different levels of experience, I've been able to sort of adapt the process.
So one person was really comfortable with the practitioner enquiry and understood how to break it down, how to structure a question but then I've got a couple of other mentors who just needed that guidance through. So it’s seen like you would with children in your class, just accessing at different levels using the resources there.
The big thing that they've really taken from it is, how to support their ECTs in school with how to formulate a question and how to actually look at the different elements that it means. We had a bit of an a-ha moment the other week and it was like, Oh yes, it needs to look like that. I think when we popped into a context that was primary relevant for us and they could see the build up and we did almost step by step, this bit first and this bit, they felt that was really useful.
I think I've just been a bit of a touch point between, for example, the research school and sort of the mentors. I'm happy to share my email and just say if you've got any questions, just pop them along or if there's anything that comes up, just let me know. So sort of shared anything that I found or just been a bit of a touch point.
For example, if they've had maybe difficulties getting, for example, getting their ECTs to engage or they weren't sure of a line of enquiry for their ECT, I've just been that midpoint just have a bit of a chat about it as somebody that's still in school and still got an ECT of my own.
Elaine Long
So that's interesting. So you're kind of support went beyond the session as well and you opened yourself up to their questions and what challenges did some of them have? You've already mentioned writing the question, some people found that quite difficult and some people might have found picking the right line of enquiry or supporting their ECT to pick the right line of enquiry difficult. Could you elaborate a bit more on some of the challenges they had?
Katie Atkin
Yeah, I think as they've gone into the second year, we've had some challenges with actually like we said, about formulating a particular enquiry that they wanted to follow with maybe had difficulties where one mentor has got 2 ECTs and they might be for example, in year one, one is in year five and it's them recognising that the ECTS now have to lead this and that they're not, I think as mentors, you hold on to your ECTs so tight in that first year because you want them to succeed and you want them to do well. I did say to them, I gave them the analogy that just said it's a little bit like shoving a little bird off the edge of a cliff, now let them flap because they'll be fine and they'll be alright.
She was like, But I'm in the middle. I was like, It's fine, follow the process, come back to the question. I said, If you’re stuck at any point, go back into that cycle and put yourself back in it. We've had that where we’ve had different ones and I think you can imagine the natural thing of COVID has been a bit of an impact. How do I fit this in? How do I adapt that and I've just said, Look, we just touch points, we do what we can and we recognise that we're at this point. I said, as long as you're following the materials that are there and you do it however you can, my ECT has been off, sadly, she had a week off as she was poorly and she just said to me, Can I just give you a ring this week?
Yeah, of course you can. Not a problem. I said you just have to adapt your practise a little bit, don't you, you can't always take additional factors that are way out of your control to heart. So we've just had conversations like that about how best to meet everybody's needs so that nobody drowns in workload and everybody keeps going.
Elaine Long
So I that’s almost a really important pastoral role you play there, those little words of wisdom to people seem to have been really important. I love the metaphor of the bid flying off the cliff because I find that really interesting when you said, when you were talking about your mentoring that you actually let your ECT maybe perhaps go a little bit wrong, but you felt that was important.
I think that's really significant, actually. That idea of it's important that they have the autonomy and they have the freedom to make mistakes because that's really important as well.
The final question, obviously, we're really keen to take best practise from people like you that have done a phenomenal job of leading practitioner enquiry. I'm really interested to know what advice you would give to people starting out on the journey next year.
Katie Atkin
Read the handbook that for me was the quickest ten pages I've ever read. Read the handbook before you do anything else, before you dive into the slides or anything like that, read your handbook and really digest what it’s saying to you. Make sure that you feel confident with that, and then really think about your knowledge of a mentor and be prepared for the second year, it’s that shove as opposed to that hold, and if you can do that and attend the sessions, it all fits into place.
Elaine Long
Shove not hold. I like that. That's definitely a good a good piece of advice. Thank you.
Mark Quin
Our thanks. Go to Kate Atkin, the Deputy Headteacher at Balby Central Primary Academy, Doncaster, for sharing coffee with us this week in the ECF Staffroom.
Elaine Long
Please do get in touch with us if you would like to chat about your ECF experience. In the meantime, do join us soon for a biscuit and a chat with another colleague in the ECF Staffroom.
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