Close
In this episode, Lorna Collins speaks to Professor Charlotte Faircloth (UCL Social Research Institute) and Michelle Kindleysides (Beamish Museum) about generations, culture, and identity.
Transcript
Lorna Collins 0:01
Welcome to creative lives a podcast which opens provocative conversations, experimenting with big ideas and local practices. My name is Lorna Collins. Our topic today is intergenerational cohesion, generations culture and identity. And our guests are Michelle Kindleysides and Charlotte Faircloth. Sorry about the sound quality. We are working remotely, and it gets better in the second half.
Charlotte Faircloth is Associate Professor in the Social Research Institute at University College London, from sociological and anthropological perspectives. Her work has focused on parenting, gender, and reproduction, using qualitative and cross cultural methodologies. This research has explored infant feeding capital relationships into generation intergenerational relations, and recently the impact of Coronavirus on family life.
And we also have Michelle Kindleysides, who is head of health and well being at the Beamish Museum, which is a large open air museum in County Durham. Her role is to develop and facilitate a unique programme of group activities and events at the Museum, which helps to support the health and well being of people who live with a range of health needs in the community. And the team began with supporting people with dementia, both in the community and living in residential homes, and has been diversifying its programmes for the past eight years. So Michelle has an enthusiasm for history and a passion for supporting people living with health needs and making a difference to their lives. We have an academic and a practitioner, would you say? Both of you are working closely within the context of generations, culture and identity or intergenerational cohesion. But what does that even mean? intergenerational cohesion? I can hardly even say it. I'm fascinated to hear your thoughts. Can you explain it to me, Charlotte, would you like to go first?
Charlotte Faircloth 2:06
Quite a big question to kick off with, I suppose in the context of my work, which is looking at parenting and how we raise children, it's traditionally been around, yeah, well, relationships between the generations and the ways in which, for example, some of the changes to the way that we raise children these days may or may not support intergenerational relationships. So again, to give an example, it's been recognised that raising children has become a much more sort of expertise-based kind of industry these days, where, you know, there's endless kind of experts writing books, and on TV programmes and government training classes, and how to parent well, and one of the implications of that, that some of my work has looked at is the effect of that on generational relationships. So where traditionally, it might have been that you would look to your mother or the grandmother of this new child to come and support you and help with childcare, this sort of expertise-based culture has introduced this idea that perhaps granny doesn't actually know best, science knows better, perhaps we ought to be doing it in a different way. And obviously, you know, for most families, they sort of managed to muddle through and work that out themselves. But I think there are some interesting implications for generational relationships around authority and who's considered to kind of know best basically, and some of the critique of that culture has been, has really undermined parental confidence, but then also confidence in their own parents, and there's anxiety sent around who they can trust after their child.
So that's a long way of sort of explaining some of the ways in which integrate generational relationships and cohesion come into my work, but I'm sure I'm sure there are many others in other people's.
Lorna Collins 3:52
Thank you so much. Michelle, would you like to react to that? Do you have any thoughts about entire generations and all generations and family working together?
Michelle Kindleysides 4:02
In my kind of line of work, intergenerational cohesion is bringing people from different generations together, finding a way to bring people together and it can be in lots of different ways breaking down kind of barriers and assumptions that they might exist between them, and finding some common ground for people to experience things together. We do a lot in our health and well being work but even in the museum as a whole. You know, we have such a huge age range of visitors. It's always lovely. When you see family groups come in, you know, you've got little children, parents and grandparents and it's bringing them together and sharing stories and experiences. Yeah, that word cohesion is fitting together nicely, bringing people together.
Lorna Collins 4:52
That sounds amazing. I'd love to see it happen in your museum. Michelle, now, can you tell me how you express yourself, creatively in your own life, and in your work, particularly coming back to these issues around generations, culture and identity.
Charlotte Faircloth 5:08
Well, you know, what was really interesting, Lorna, when you sent topics through this podcast before we met today, I just thought, gosh, I really do not feel like I do anything creative with my life at the moment. And I think that's partly a reflection on academia and partly reflection on a pandemic. But I feel like a lot of us sit in front of our laptops and answer emails between nine and six every day. And frankly, that's kind of all I have time for. It feels quite flat, it doesn't feel terribly creative in terms of connections and collaborations I'm able to make with people which are often I realise now quite incidental in terms of the creative relationships that are sparked through kind of quick chats in the coffee room or before and after meetings. Whereas at the moment, it's all online, we're there to discuss agenda point one, followed by two, followed by three. And there's no space for unexpected, or I would call creative development to unfold. So academia, obviously, is creative, in the sense that, you know, one's trying to think of an interesting research projects and questions and things like that. But professionally, I feel a little bit stunted creatively. And I don't think, you know, I'm alone in that. And personally, as well, I feel like, particularly someone with two small children, and I'm currently expecting my third in August, there is not much space for creative pursuits. And I suppose I'm quite conservative in the way I think about creativity. And that's one of the reasons I was really interested to talk to you today. And I guess, when you asked me that, I was thinking, well, when was the last time I sat down and drew something or created something beyond, I don't know, maybe a bit of cooking or DIY. And then I also thought, well, you know, maybe being pregnant is quite creative, you know, if you're really thinking in a sort of pay sense. But yeah, I feel like the pandemic has really flattened out a lot of space for creativity, both professionally and personally. And it's something I feel quite sad about, it's actually something one of the participants in this study that I'm doing about the impact of COVID on family life, with my colleagues, Katherine Twamley and Humera Iqbal. This participant was talking about it the other day, and she said, I just feel like I was so long without beauty now that I forgotten that I ever need. And it was so sad and so poignant. And it just really made me think it's going to take a long time for people to get back in touch with their creative selves, you know, in the wake of pandemics. I'm struck by what you just said, and I believe we're all creative all the time, but we hardly ever notice it. But that's another conversation.
Lorna Collins 7:43
Michelle, would you like to respond?
Michelle Kindleysides 7:46
Yeah, I was gonna say exactly the same to begin with Charlotte, that when I first read the question I, well, I definitely used to think I was someone who wasn't very creative at all. And then it was only when I was off work on maternity leave a few years ago, that I suddenly realised there was this massive void. Like, I didn't miss the emails, I didn't miss meetings. What I did miss was something that I didn't really, I didn't appreciate it. I just didn't realise what it was. But I am creative in my work. But I think because I saw his work. I didn't see as being creative. But I think because I facilitate a lot of groups and sought, those people are being creative. It's not me, but part of being a facilitator is you're in the group, you're doing everything together. So like the group that I had yesterday, in the cottage at the museum, you know, there was age ranges, there was kind of me and my 30s, some people in their 40s, and then 60s 70s 80s, all from different backgrounds, all from different parts of the country, really, but coming together to do we did all kinds of things we did gardening yesterday, we did a bit of painting, we did a little bit of woodwork. So yeah, it wasn't until I didn't have creativity in my life that I realised, actually, I do do and I do miss it. And then the pandemic as well. I wasn't at work, but I was at home with a three year old, who is very creative. And that kind of reminded me again, how valuable it is. I mean, she still loves the craft box in our house. I think I'm probably sick to death of it after a year. But she It reminded me how important creativity is for all of us. Definitely. It brings us together brings the generations together, creativity, definitely. We're all different, but we all have this innate creativity inside us. And even if it feels like we haven't got the chance to express ourselves imaginatively or use creativity, like you say, it's still there. And it's waiting for you. Definitely, and I think a group that had in yesterday is a men's group and if I kind of marketed this group to them as it's a creativity group, they're black. No, no, we're not doing that not doing that. But we kind of do it by default, and kind of covertly, they don't realise that they're being creative. And they definitely wouldn't describe themselves as creative men. They're very, you know, very manly, but a lot of them have worked in heavy industry, or they're like, we're not creative Nana, but do beautiful wood carvings. That's not creative to them. That's a job.
Lorna Collins 10:28
Be nice to think about our situation, what's going on in the world right now? I know you can't get rid of it. The elephant in the room, the COVID virus? What about the work that you're doing at the moment? How does that respond to our situation? politically, economically, perhaps socially, academically, culturally, anything you like? Charlotte?
Charlotte Faircloth 10:54
Again, a big question. And I suppose really, the main thing that I am doing in response to this crisis professionally, is to try and study the effect of the pandemic on families in this project that I mentioned. I mean, I should say, when the pandemic hit, my first response was not, 'Oh, great, let's set up a research project'. But my amazing colleague, Katherine Twamley did have that response and asked if me and Humira would like to be part of, of this project called the families and community transitions in a time of COVID study, which has now grown from being just a UK-based study to one looking at 10 countries around the world, looking at the different country responses and family effects in a whole range of different settings. So my work is sort of addressing it quite directly and speak to your other points around say, political or social issues around that, obviously, one of the really big things that has come up for us with this study of around 40 families in the UK across the last year is just what a huge difference resources make to one's ability to manage the pandemic. It's one thing to have, say two parents working from home, perhaps one on, you know, while schools are closed. And, you know, not to say that that was easy for anybody, it was hugely stressful for pretty much all of the families we spoke to. But it's radically different for that family than it is for, say, a single mother on Universal Credit, who suddenly is trying to look after three children on her own, isn't sure like how she can even get to the shops, you know, suddenly all these kind of really everyday tasks, survival, like procuring food, become really polarised. So again, it's one thing for middle class families to finally secure their Ocado slot, it's another for a mother who has to exist on benefits which have been kept because she now has three children, and is unable to afford formula milk and is not sure if she should take her eight year olds with her to the supermarkets early in the morning or not. I mean, it's just, it was just so heartbreaking hearing some of these stories. So intersectional kind of stratification, I guess, really came out of, of our research into people's experiences the pandemic, in a kind of creative, intergenerational, slightly tenuous link, I suppose. One of the things that was quite heartening was that although in many cases, grandparents, for example, were initially unable to see grandchildren or families, once the bubble legislation came in, you know, that arrangement came about so that grandparents were able to support with childcare, particularly if they lived locally. But in cases where they lived far apart, we had quite a few families where they were quite creatively trying to involve grandparents in for example, homeschooling. So in one case, they would come up with a lesson every day or a quiz or something for their grandchildren, which meant that the parents could then be getting on with something else for an hour, there was quite a creative solution in their part using the kind of technological developments that they had at their disposal. But in some ways, I think they would say that the pandemics brought them closer, because they were sort of seeing each other every day, even though obviously, they could couldn't see each other in person for months. So again, resources made a huge difference to how people manage this whole period. And one's ability to be creative, I think does come down to the kind of energies one has to invest in those sorts of solutions.
Lorna Collins 14:21
Thank you. So that's very interesting. Michelle, would you like to respond to that with your own experiences?
Michelle Kindleysides 14:27
Well, for me, we were furloughed for quite a while at the museum. So my first priority when I was able to return around this idea of creativity was to try and reintroduce as many opportunities as I could for people to engage creatively with the museum whether that be virtually or what we do best is in person. So we have been able to get a few groups back up and running. It definitely helped him the weather's nice, because we can move outside and I'm really excited about a new piece of work, we're starting with Northumbria and Newcastle University around this theme of the ageless citizen. So over the next few months, we'll be working with a group at Beamish and kids cabin, which is in the city centre of Newcastle. So they work with younger people, and we've got the men's group. And they're going to be working together on a project to begin with, probably virtually so the kids are going to send a challenge to the men's group with a little video that they've created to explain what the challenge is. And then we're going to reciprocate that it's given us a new opportunity to try something new. Because I do think there's a little bit of fear that exists between the generations at the moment, not fear of each other, but fear of what they could pass on. I think for months, you know, we've been told to keep the older generation safe, keep away from older people. And I think there's that fear that exists. So I think for us on this project, starting virtually, but still doing a fantastic creative project is the way forward.
Lorna Collins 16:09
That sounds like a really useful and an interesting and practical response to the situation. Charlotte, what was your response? Where's your research going?
Charlotte Faircloth 16:18
You know, what's going to happen with it? Why is there such crime? So yeah, the three of us is is sort of research team, or currently, we've just finished data collection after a year with these families. And we're going to be writing it up, I'm going to be leading on some of the publications around to new parenting, obviously, as relates to my previous work, but also in the future, hopefully, intergenerational relations as well. And I think actually just one thing that Michelle was saying, never around this kind of fear between generations, it's so interesting, particularly the way that we think about children and childhood, you know, it's really introduced this kind of idea as children as kind of vectors that we need to be a bit cautious about. And I feel like in some ways, it's exacerbated tensions that were maybe there already, but it's made it really, really tangible dislike distrust of school they showed us so I suppose one thing that'd be very interesting is this idea around vaccination for children in the UK, like how that plays out, which obviously has really interesting implications for global politics more broadly. And the main sort of outcome of the project is going to be an edited volume, hopefully, with UCL press, where each country submits a chapter about their sort of main findings around, you know, what were the social distancing regulations, like, let's say in Chile, or Argentina, or, you know, America? And then what effect did that have on family life? And one of the really big themes that is coming out, you know, whether we're talking about Taiwan, or Singapore, or any of these other countries, I've mentioned, seems to be around gender sort of imbalance, and dissatisfaction in sort of domestic relationships. So that's certainly something that as a research team, I think we're going to be following up on because it's quite curious that even though you might have a very hands off approach, like in Sweden and Scandinavia kind of states, or a very sort of micromanaging one elsewhere. It seems to be that wherever these measures have been taken in any kind of form, women seem to be bearing the brunt of it. And that's quite curious for our research team. So that's one of the things we're going to be exploring, and obviously, that relates to kind of intergenerational care and relationships, because a lot of it is around child care, and also care for elders, which their pandemic has really existed.
Lorna Collins 18:33
Thank you, Charlotte. That's very eloquent and very interesting. Michelle, would you like to tell us a bit more about what you're the Beamish museum doing in the future? After COVID? and looking forwards with creativity?
Michelle Kindleysides 18:47
Yes, well, I'm hoping over the next few months that we're able to widen, widen our offer, again, really, because we used to have so many different health and wellbeing groups and sessions and activities every week. So the more opportunities, the better, really. So that's my aim. And if COVID restrictions come back, at any point, I think I'm in a better position now to sort of respond a bit more creatively to support people. I'm really keen that we never just repeat the same thing again and again, and again. We're always trying new things linking with new partners. So we work a lot with our closest universities, which are Northumbria, Newcastle. We have PhD students, we have occupational therapy students working with us and everybody we work with always bring some new ideas. So diversifying and working with new groups, new opportunities. That's the plan for the future.
Lorna Collins 19:48
Thank you to Michelle Kinley sides and Charlotte Faircloth, for what you have shared and for our collaborative thinking. I look forward to applying these ideas in our creative practice, in our creative lives. Thank you to Grand Challenges for producing the podcast, UCL Minds for publishing and the input of our numerous collaborators behind the scenes. The editing is by Nina Quach and the music is by Tim Moore. We will be back with our very last podcast in this series in two weeks time.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai