Transcript: ECF Staffroom S01E02
Dilemma-based facilitation: experienced facilitators share what goes wrong for them… and what they do about it.
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Elaine Long
Welcome to The ECF Staffroom. I'm Elaine Long.
Mark Quinn
And I am Mark Quinn.
Elaine Long
We are programme leaders for the UCL Early Career Teacher Development Programme. Why are we in the staffroom? We are here because this is where the best professional learning conversations always take place. This is where problems can be aired bluntly and where solutions can be explored.
Mark Quinn
Over the course of this series, we will hear the voices of different colleagues as they come in the ECF staffroom. We will hear from early career teachers themselves and from the mentors and induction tutors who support them. We will talk about all things ECF, the challenges and the joys. So why don't you enjoy a coffee with us, perhaps even grab a biscuit and sit down to half an hour of ECF staffroom, chat. OK, Welcome to the ECF staffroom, Stephanie. Do you take that? Do you take the weight off your feet? Have a seat. I'm going to make you a coffee. How do you take your coffee?
Stephanie Bingham
Oh, I'm quite picky about coffee. I have my coffee. Black. No sugar. Yeah, that'll do.
Mark Quinn
Strong. Weak with a bit of extra water or not.
Stephanie Bingham
Oh, no. Strong and no cold water on the top.
Mark Quinn
Perfect. Exactly how I have mine as well. I'm just out of interest. When? When you were in school, what did the children call you in school?
Stephanie Bingham
They either called me Mrs. Bingham if I was winning or miss. If I wasn't winning.
Mark Quinn
I'd think you would know. You would know if you're winning if you weren't.
Stephanie Bingham
Oh, well, it's just a bit lazy, isn't it, to call everybody, miss. I don't think it's difficult to give people a name So. But it was a repeated message that didn't come across particularly well.
Really? Because everybody, even some of the staff called you Miss. And I've never really liked that, so maybe I'm just a bit old fashioned.
Mark Quinn
Yeah. No, no, I take your point. Being shouted. Sir, sir, sir. Across the street on a Saturday afternoon is a bit. Is a bit strange as well.
Stephanie Bingham
Yes, yes, yes.
Mark Quinn
So Stephanie would like to tell us a little bit about your current role, what you're doing now, and basically what have you been up to today?
Stephanie Bingham
OK, so my current role is on the programme directorate, at NETSP, which is based in the education centre at Newcastle University. And my role is to lead on programme development and programme delivery for the early career framework and for NPQs and for schools across the Northeast. And today I have been I've done a bit of firefighting, which I probably won't share with. It didn't bring me an awful lot of joy, and I've been in a meeting with the DfE and I've been in a meeting to discuss NPQ content and I've also been doing some Q&A of some NPQ materials that we're writing. And I've also been fielding a significantly large number of emails.
Elaine Long
Well, maybe it'll help if I wish skew away from that too to thinking a little bit further backwards. Because we know you've had a long and fabulous career in education, so could you tell us a bit about your starting point and then how it led to where you are now?
Stephanie Bingham
Yeah, I did a history degree and just was totally in love with history and wanted to share it with as many people as I possibly could. So I became a teacher and I spent about 23 years in teaching in different leadership roles in schools in the Northeast. And then I began doing some leadership development work and left teaching to work with teachers to develop teaching practice. I did that in 2014, I think. And as part of that I became a facilitator on the NPQ programmes with NETSP, and that's how I became the programme director at NETSP. But I did various bits of work on Teesside in particular, and we conducted some research projects and I was involved in the Transforming TEES Project, and I was involved in the Hartlepool Education Commission. So to call already interesting things when I came out of school at the starting point that have led to, to where I am now, but I definitely moved from the classroom teaching role to sort of a leadership development role and working with teachers.
Elaine Long
And what do you enjoy most about your current role? Apart from building lots of emails?
Stephanie Bingham
First, the people don't love. What I really love is meeting people that I work in lots and lots of different educational settings, and I've learned lots of things that I wish I'd known while I was still teaching because I work across phase and I work across institutions. The education landscape has changed a great deal since I left teaching, even, never mind since I started. And so Multi Academy trusts have totally changed the way education's working in the North East and across the country as well. So I enjoy, I enjoy the networking in the partnership and the learning that I'm doing but I also really enjoy the professional development side of work. I like watching a teacher's professional development journey. I like seeing the impact that the programmes that we run can have on somebody's professional journey. I love seeing those eureka moments where they say, Oh, now I know how I'm going to do something. It's really powerful and important, and it plugs a bit of that gap that teaching such a purposeful job, isn't it? And he you're so aware that you're contributing to somebody's life journey and that you're doing something of value for the nation. And when you stop teaching, there's quite a big bereavement involved in that. I think about, Well, who am I? What's my identity and what is my purpose? In my professional life? And developing teachers and helping teachers to learn. And also reaching a stage where you think, actually, I have got quite a bit of expertise myself. I can share, but I also know lots of other people that have got expertise that can plug the gaps that I've got. This is intellectually interesting, but it also still feels purposeful and it feels as I'm still contributing to the education world. So that's what I really love.
Elaine Long
That's really interesting. And you mentioned as well that you'd learn things that you wish you'd known when you were teaching. So I just wonder if you could take some of those things you've learned and go back to that that younger teacher that you were. What would you tell that younger teacher knowing what you know now?
Stephanie Bingham
Well, I work with I worked with teenagers, so I think I would tell my younger self, go and learn how to teach English and reading to children who aren't very literate and didn't grow up with books because you could have fixed a lot of problems in the classroom. When children couldn't access the curriculum, really because they weren't literate. And I think it took me a really long time to understand that that's what was going on. And I definitely didn't have the skill set to fix it. And schools are stretched and they don't always pick it up in secondary schools. And I don't think there are very many people in secondary schools who really know how to teach young people to read. I think that's a massive gap in our professional development. And so I would do that. I would also tell myself to form stronger relationships with families if I possibly could, because I think that dialog, I think I know much more now, particularly from the work that I've done with primary schools who pick children up right at the beginning of their educational life. I think I know much more now about how important those early years are, those formative years, and how intimidated a lot of people are by secondary schools and by coming in and speaking to secondary school teachers. And I don't think I navigated that particularly well, even as I head of faculty, I don't think I navigated that particularly well. I was winging it. I worked on instinct I'm a good communicator, but I lacked a lot of knowledge that would have helped me to kind of make a better connection between family and student as a threesome. And work out how we could
fix educational problems. So those are those are two things that I would tell my younger self. There are quite a lot of others, but we've got limited time.
Elaine Long
It's I would share both those as well, I think. You think? Yeah, that well, I am an English teacher and I led literacy across the school for quite a while. So the fact that teachers need to consider themselves as teachers of literacy as well as their subject in secondary school is often a more alien concept. And, also the gap in knowledge and expertise around how children acquire both those skills definitely, definitely needs plugging. And I think, you know, we often talk about teaching. There's a cognitive act, but you really raise the importance of teaching being the social and emotional.
Stephanie Bingham
And that as well. Yeah, it really is.
Mark Quinn
That's really interesting, isn't it, because relationships with other colleagues, relationships with parents and carers teachers as teachers of literacy, I mean that's been that that language has been in our profession for 40 years and more has, you know, and it might be that we've not made the progress in those areas that we really might have done or we should have done. Yeah. And, and of course it leads me to the, the topic of this discussion today which is about the early career framework because of course that's the latest attempt I suppose to try to address those gaps in teacher preparedness for the job. And you know, those two things again do feature in the early career framework I guess it might be for others to decide whether it's adequately covered in the framework or whether our programme does an adequate job of preparing teachers in those ways. But we certainly hope don't we, that that in those two areas and in others that we are doing our best to prepare teachers. Just, you've got vast experience, Stephanie, for such a young person and worked and worked in so many schools and have such relationships with so many schools in the northeast of the country. And of course, we got to know you principally through the early rollout of this programme. So you'll have seen how the Early Career Framework Programme has been implemented in schools. So really, really interested to know from your perspective what you would see as the main challenges for schools in implementing this programme.
Stephanie Bingham
Well, you know, I'd be surprised that the first challenge, I think, is time. This is a very content rich programme, and it's quite difficult for any teacher to take on extra learning when they're trying to deliver the learning for the young people in their schools. And so doing the reading and addressing the tasks that lie within the early career framework, I think it's hard to do that, and I think it's hard for the mentors to provide the time that they need to provide to give their early career teacher the level of support that they need. So I think that's a really big challenge and that's a challenge for schools that should be a challenge for schools rather than just for individuals. I think. And I think the other the other challenge that we've had from the feedback from schools, from mentors and induction teachers and early career teachers, is that the framework is is quite a prescriptive framework, and the statements are quite prescriptive for a reason. The evidence base, this
is what we know makes good practice. But when you start teaching oh, do you remember that frightening time when you first start teaching something? Oh, to carry on regardless, this is my timetable and my set of classes and I've just got to do it. Actually, we all emerge with particular strengths in particular areas for development. And if you're following a programme that's got quite a tight sequence, but the bit that addresses your particular area for development, which might be quite urgent, is in module four, and you need to deal with it now actually, particularly because it's quite a tight sequence. People don't really feel free to amend the sequence and jump forward or jump backwards. And I think as we go forward, we need to learn how to send the message that you can be flexible about it. Because if my problem is classroom management, then the fact that we're in the we looking at questioning, clearly there's a link between effective questioning and good behaviour management. But actually, if Johnny won't sit down, I need to learn the techniques to make sure that I manage that situation properly. And questioning is probably not part of it, not immediately. And so I think those two challenges, having enough time to get the best out of the programme for the mentor and for the early career teacher and being able to meet the needs of a really new teacher whilst also being faithful to the programme, I think is quite two quite big challenges. And they much each other as well. Because the time that you've set aside for your mentor meeting for the early career teacher might get swallowed up by today's crisis that you've actually got to fix. And so those two things might actually kind of collide with each other and become even bigger as a result of clashing.
Mark Quinn
Yeah, yeah, totally. And I would say, you know, obviously we listen to our mentors and our early career teachers frequently through the programme and those two things among others. But those two things do, you know, they shout at us, you know, loud and clear you know, we'd love to do this programme, but I'd need a bit more time to get to get the best out of it. And also this idea, but sort of personalising it. Am I allowed to personalise the programme? So I'm hoping you've also seen schools that have addressed these problems quite well. I mean, if you've got solutions to these challenges that you've just raised for us, Stephanie?
Stephanie Bingham
Well, I've got I've got one particularly good solution, which was a school which decided that for logistics, it was a big, big secondary school. And what they decided was that all of the early career teachers would have a subject mentor. And the subject mentor was following the school's induction programme and the subjects areas for development and teaching that teacher and supporting that teacher in that professional journey, that subject specific. How do you how do you teach science? How do you teach math? What do I do when this happens in English? And the induction tutor used the mentor time for the early career teacher the early career framework sorry to work with is a group. So they actually had two sets of mentoring in the week, but because they were on a lighter timetable, there was time for that. And they worked as a group on the early career framework and individually in their subject areas. And that actually worked really well for all of them. Now, I think that tells you quite a lot about the culture in the school, that they've obviously got quite a nimble leadership team who've thought carefully about, well, how can we make sure that we're going to follow both programmes? And that was part of the early career framework, the early rollout. So it was quite quick that they looked at it and thought, right, this is too big.
But on the other hand, this was a school that was volunteering to take part in a new programme that wasn't statutory. So they were already in the mindset that, OK, let's see what we can do with this. They felt like they had the capacity and they that was early career teachers talked strongly about how much they valued having those group sessions because the discussion was rich. The person who was leading it, the induction tutor, was more experienced in most cases than their subject mentor was. They were further into their career. They had more understanding of what it was like to be an early teacher and a career teacher. And so they felt as if they were getting the best of both worlds because they were getting such specific wisdom from a subject specialist but they were getting that overarching kind of generic professional development thinking from a really highly experienced member of the senior leadership team. So but that was time efficient as well because it meant that the mentors weren't trying to deal with subject specific mentoring and also the early career framework mentoring and then just basically giving up twice as much time to run it.
Mark Quinn
So I guess this is this is an induction tutor who must know that the programme really well, if they're able to, you know, select the parts of it which they can lead communally, that that's sounds like part of the message that that that school has absorbed you know, knowing, the structure of the programme really well means that you can intervene with it. You can you can dip in and dip out. You can work out the bits that are going to sit well across your school. I suppose it comes down to leadership.
Stephanie Bingham
I suppose it comes up to leadership and it comes down to preparation and good communication. And so that person contacted us and talked to us about the issue they got in the school and posed it as a suggestion, is this a good solution? And they asked us about the contents of the programme. And so we were able to talk to them about the audit, for example, and say the audits are a good way to identify where the areas for development are and to then maybe do paired work with people that have got the same issues or paired work with people who've got a strength in a weakness that oppose each other so
they can support each other in their development. Oh, well, I do this because that's good to learn and to feel like an expert right at the beginning of your career to think, Oh, that's not my problem. Actually, I can do that and this is how I do it. Sometimes that's easier to receive. So that that was part of it that we did have discussions with them, but I don't want to take very much credit for it because it was their solution. In the first place. And they, they, they came with very specific questions. One of the things that I noticed about that school in a piece of advice that I would definitely give to induction tutors is to be really familiar with the handbook and think in advance about what you already do in your school. Because one of the tone problems that came up in the early roll out was the high performing schools have very good induction processes, try to run that as well as the early career framework. And that doesn't work and it's not it's not wise to do that. And there are ways that you can make sure that you cover the essential things from your own schools provision that you definitely don't want to drop in other places where you can recognize that some of your own schools provision is actually mirrored in the early career framework, and you could probably drop it because the early career framework would cover it anyway. And that's about leadership again, isn't it? But it's also about being well informed and
thinking it through in advance. So I think picking it up in September and starting to think about it in September is not is not good practice. I wouldn't do that. I mean, I appreciate that you might have to do that if you take on a new teacher right at the beginning of the year having not expected to. But if you know in advance that you can have early career teachers starting the school year in September, I would say get yourself reading that that framework and get yourself reading the handbook and think about the programme materials and what you already do and what you can take out. Because we had lots of comments: That’s absolutely hopeless I can’t possibly go to all the school CPD and then all of the early career framework, and that's not what you're being asked to do.
Mark Quinn
Yeah.
Stephanie Bingham
And if you are being asked to do that, then the school hasn't quite thought through what the implications are for you. So I think, yeah, you're right, it is about leadership and it's about the leadership team properly understanding what's involved and properly thinking about how it fits in with what they already do and adapting what they expect meant both mentors and early career teachers to do. Because actually for a mentor, if you've asked a mentor to take on that responsibility, then to expect them also to go to all of your internal professional development. When reading through the materials on the early career framework, is actually quite a rich bit of professional development for a mentor anyway, and it includes mentor professional development for mentors. Those training sessions are not this is how you do the early career framework. It's Let's help you to develop in your mentoring journey. This is some investments in you, and schools need to recognize that as well. And I think I think there are times when perhaps they could free the mentors up from some of the internal CPD and let them have their own pathway, which is I am developing as a mentor this is what my professional development priority is for this academic year. And so when I'm going to an ECF session or when I'm running a mentor meeting with my trainee or my early career teacher, actually that means I don't need to be going to the school CPD because it's that's too generic. And actually this is my professional learning journey.
Mark Quinn
Yeah, I know that. Elaine's got a question about, about this coming up. Elaine.
Elaine Long
Yeah, I was just going to add to what you were saying about giving people licence to focus solely on, on mentoring. And I think there's something around that around the value people place on mentoring and the fact that we undervalue it in, in schools as a professional development route and we undervalue the importance of it in schools as well. And I wonder if that's why people don't do that so much because they have that misconception around that. But I wanted to move away from the in-school activities of the ECF to the facilitated sessions and you're in the privileged position that you will have seen lots of facilitated sessions…
Stephanie Bingham
I have.
Elaine Long
for the ECF, and you also would have been involved in helping to train facilitators in the structure-based sessions into different cluster groups. And I just wanted you to think about those three things really working with facilitators to develop them and structuring the sessions in terms of different clusters and also the actual delivery of the sessions and thinking about those three things. What have you learned about what makes high quality professional development for all in those sessions?
Stephanie Bingham
Really strong preparation is important. It's not a thing that you can busk, and it's really important that you come prepared. And that's not just in the sense of preparing the materials that are provided for you, but it's also, I think the best facilitators is what I've seen have also reflected on their own practice. And how could I illustrate this point with something from my own practice? And because we're delivering the early career framework in phase specific groups, the facilitators should be able to provide an illustration of the good practice or of the statements and illustrating what the research says through really visceral examples, actually. They should be able to they should be able to make it really come alive and so from the point of view of training the facilitators, it's important that they feel empowered to do that and that we're really clear with them that there are some scripted materials here. But the script is there so that you don't feel that you've got to prepare a whole session from scratch. It is not there like a play where you've got to learn it and deliver it. It's not a performance this is in a sense, this is your guides. And if you think that there's something better that you could put in as a scenario, or if you think there are better questions provided your faithful to the framework and faithful to the to the intent of the sessions that the learning outcome remains the same, then play with it and put it put it in. So the last session that I QA’ed, there were two facilitators who worked in different schools that were in the same MAT, and they had got to know each other through facilitation so but that's another thing that I would say is that that facilitation is an opportunity to develop your own professional network and to learn about practice in other schools. And I know that professional relationships have grown as a result of our facilitation pairings. But one of the things that they had done that really struck me was that they had done the preparation jointly. So they both read all the materials and then they'd got together and they'd shared the anecdotes and the illustrations that they thought would make the session work. And so when they when they did the facilitation, it was really clear to the participants that they had a strong relationship. So it was it felt warm and it felt very professional because it was quite clear that quite a rich professional conversation had gone on between these facilitators beforehand. So there was good modelling going on there. You know, we, we at this stage in our career, but we're still learning, we're still sharing, we're still learning from each other. But also we don't turn up and busk. We prepare this. We care about your learning journey. And so we've made an effort about how are we going to present it. And I think that we're able to do that partly because we have made them free to do that. We had made it really clear, pepper it with your own experience. Don't if that scenario is not the right scenario, and it does say that in all the guidance. But I think when you've got a set of slides that have been nicely prepared you think. Well, I can change that and I would change them. I mean, obviously keep the colour scheme and the logos very important but having stayed faithful to our design and our brand, please put your own scenarios in there. If there are better illustrations of the of the because you know, the context of the schools that you're working
with as well as the facilitator and they get to know it by the middle of year two, they know those participants really well and they know all the little things that have been coming up through the school year. And they've picked up bits and pieces about how the schools are structured and what the hierarchies are and what the major modus operandi are. And so it's really important to use that in your facilitation in the best facilitation definitely does that.
Elaine Long
And have you seen any differences in the quality of the sessions between year one and year two?
Stephanie Bingham
And I think I've seen the facilitators feel much more comfortable and much less nervous. I think they were very nervous about making sure teachers want to do a good job, don't they? And we're not but we're not very comfortable teaching somebody else's lesson plan. And so at the beginning, I think people were really slightly overawed maybe by the materials, and there was a lot to cover. And how do I cover all of this? And what if there's a really rich discussion that means I haven't got time for slide four how do you deal with that? So they're much more comfortable now because they've learned and I'm quite a pragmatic person. And I mean, Mark, you and I have been in meetings with the DfE right at the very early stages where I just said, can you really cover that number statements across an academic? Is that really what you want us to. Oh, yes, that's what we want to do. But I think you have to be pragmatic and say, look, this is a really good tool for improving professional development in schools. This is a really good way to enrich new teachers knowledge and understanding of what works in the classroom. And if you miss a bit, I don't know how much that's going to matter in the long scheme of things, because the most important thing is that they are engaging with thinking and they are really clearly aware that there's an evidence base that will tell you how to fix issues in your classroom, that will tell you how to plan curricula, and that will tell you how to assess effectively. And so for the for the facilitators to be able to say, right, I ran a session in year one and I missed out a bit of it because I really couldn't fit it all in. And we had quite a good breakout session. And actually in the long run, it didn't matter because they had learned it and they had learned the intent and the plenary discussion. It was clear they understood what was going on. Now they feel more at ease. So I think I've definitely seen that. I've definitely seen people going on a confidence journey and a sort of a proficiency journey with the framework as well. I mean, that's another thing, isn't it?
Elaine Long
I think familiarity with the framework is something that's actually hugely underestimated and the time it takes to develop that expertise in the framework and within sessions to go backwards and forwards and link to different parts of it. I think that that's hugely underrated. And I think also I totally agree with you this idea of fidelity versus variation in the contextualisation. I think that that's something that's incredibly difficult as well and it can feel quite scary because people know they've got to be faithful to the framework. So it might feel a bit safer almost to treat it like a script, as she said. But if people do that that are going to go away not feeling like they've had an experience, that really talks to them.
Mark Quinn
Yeah, and we also want the facilitators to take advantage of the experience they have. You know, we didn't just pluck them off the street. You knew some of these people from your own past experiences as a facilitator. You've worked with these people over many years, many of them, and that's the case across the programme. You know, these facilitators have been selected for very good reasons. They're excellent practitioners in the classroom. Many of them are. Most of them are still in the classroom. And so we would want them to draw upon that kind of rich well of experience and expertise that they have without overwhelming these poor new teachers with what they think they should be able to do by now.
Stephanie Bingham
But actually, one of the things that's richest about the anecdotes that they have or the illustrations that they use is that they don't sell themselves as being absolutely excellent. They talk about a problem they've encountered and how they've resolved it. And so that's actually really reassuring for an early career teacher that even somebody who's ten or 15 years into their teaching life is still dealing with issues in the classroom or they're planning things that then it just doesn't work and they think, Oh, I spent hours planning that. It hasn't worked. This this happens. And it doesn't mean that you're not very good at your job. You're not very good at your job if you don't recognize it and you don't fix it, but if something doesn't go very well in the classroom, well, that might have been because there were 30 people in there. Things don't always work.
Stephanie Bingham
I mean, who's perfect all the time? I don't want to work with them. So what do you I mean, really? So you're right. You're absolutely right. And I think I think one of the things that the facilitators have really benefited from is that when we gave the brief to the delivery partners about selection for facilitators, we were really clear that although facilitating is a very rich professional development opportunity for the facilitators, and they should bear that in mind, who's ready for that learning and who's ready to give that time? And that thought we also made it really clear that it wasn't appropriate to pick your very talented, eager beaver who's three years in because they won't have credibility in the session. Not because they're not talented and not because they're not good, but because they haven't been around the block often enough. And it's, you know, you need that thing about continuity and, and the fact that if you're in a secondary school that you've taken people from year 7 to year 11, or if you're in a primary school and you've seen that what you do in year two, the impact that has in year 5, if you haven't done it very well, you need people that really understand the sequence of the school curriculum and understand how different teaching can be at different phases or different key stages or in different areas of the curriculum. And you can't do that if you haven't been doing it very long. Doesn't matter if you started teaching when you were 40 or started teaching when you're 23. If you've only been doing it for three years, you don't have enough knowledge about how to fix the issues and about curriculum sequence that will give you the credibility to really develop your early career teachers and I think the same is true. The same is even more true for mentors. You know, some of our mentors are headteachers, so however talented, one of your new mentors may be, they are not the people to run to be facilitating because they need to be able to chair a conversation between very experienced professionals wi
that can't be done if you don't really have the experience to pick it all up and illustrate it yourself.
Mark Quinn
And it is one of the things that I love about the ECF programme is that, you know, obviously it's about early career teachers and it's about their mentors. And many mentors will have a few years experience maybe not very experienced. You know, you become a mentor from various different routes, you know, and you should be glad that you become a mentor or your headteacher is, you know, tapped on the shoulder but it can be very experienced or quite inexperienced. But facilitators are not. They are a different class altogether. And I love the fact that we found a way of valuing those colleagues who have been around the block a few times and trimmed a few hedges and that, you know, and I keep I now know what they don't know, you know, and can share that.
Mark Quinn
As you say, it's not an anecdote. It's a kind of dilemma-based facilitation, which I think it's a wonderful thing. We've got, you know, and it's great that we've found, you know, a space has been found for that kind of expertise within the profession.
Elaine Long
I think to return to something else you said as well, Stephanie, about facilitators modelling the fact that they still get things wrong, that even after so many years, they're still learning. I think that's really important because I see a link between that and challenging this idea that the that the framework is a repeat that we hear so much from this is the repeat. I've already done it. And I think it's really important, therefore, that facilitators do keep reminding them that you come back to the teaching standards throughout your whole career. You know, I was a teacher for 20 years. I say I mastered it at all, ever. So I think that modelling and that sense of you know, you constantly do revisit the same themes and teaching and hopefully you learn each time and get better is really important as well in that facilitators are actually role models, you know, in many ways for ECTs. And moving on to almost the end of the podcast, sadly, because I'm so enjoying talking to you, but we give every guest on our podcast a Post-it note. So I'm just going to pass you the Post-it note right now. It's a lovely luminous yellow.
Stephanie Bingham
Thank you. And I have a pen.
Elaine Long
Great. You come prepared. Good. You know that teacher that comes to the session without a pen I am please to know that. And what we would like you to do on your Post-it notes is we would like you to write a piece of advice and that can be a piece of advice for anyone you choose. So it could be for us at UCL, it could be for your younger self, it could be for a mentor or a facilitator, anyone you like. So we would like you to tell us what advice you've written on your luminous yellow Post-it note and who you would like to give that Post-it note to.
Stephanie Bingham
So I would like to give my Post-it note to the induction tutors in school, and it says, ‘Make sure you've read the handbook and make sure you've set things up in school properly so that this programme can be delivered well for everyone.’
Elaine Long
I think they'll be nice to Marks as that. Make sure you read the handbook.
Mark Quinn
The much maligned the much.
Stephanie Bingham
But I mean we almost every question that we feels the answer's in the handbook and I totally get it. And we don't mind fielding it because people are really busy. And if you've got 10 minutes between lesson one and less than two and you can't find which page it's on, it's quicker to phone someone or paying off an email. Like, I totally get that. But often people don't even know that it is in the handbook and that they could be looking in there and that that's frustrating. And I think the people are just starting out with the early career framework making sure that you've set things up in school properly will make the whole year or two years better for everyone.
Mark Quinn
That's great. And we know that schools are time pressed places, and I can hear the bell ringing which is, I'm afraid, going to have to bring our conversation to a close. Stephanie, I know that Eileen and I could talk to you all afternoon
Stephanie Bingham
Thank you.
Mark Quinn
And bask in your superior wisdom. But we but we have to we have to draw to a close. Thank you so much for spending this time with us, Stephanie. It's always it's always an absolute delight. I hope you enjoy the rest of your evening. Maybe you have a second cup of coffee when you when you go. Maybe we didn't even ask you for your biscuit of choice. Maybe that that's an important thing today. It's a tradition of our podcast.
Mark Quinn
What what's your what's your but your biscuit choice. Stephanie can munch that on your way out to Stephanie.
Stephanie Bingham
Well, there's nothing homemade that my biscuit of choice is a custard cream.
Mark Quinn
Can’t go far wrong.
Elaine Long
I think simple but I would say elegant and classic, really a custard cream.
Mark Quinn
As if you've described our guest.
Elaine Long
And on that note, thank you so much for joining us. Please do get in touch with us if you think you would like to chat about your ECF experience. In the meantime, do join us next time for a biscuit and a chat with another colleague in the ECF stuff.
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