Episode 01: Student Life

Ayesha Qamar is a third year BA History, Politics and Economics student. Her topics of interest are the student experience, living in london, global politics, sustainability and sports.

Kate Goodall is a third year BA History student. Her topics of interest are politics, music, history, basketball, student societies, economics and current affairs.

Angelica Davis Aladren is a first year BSc Psychology student. Her topics of interest are student wellbeing, student budgeting, human rights and social politics.

Episode 01 dives into all things student life. Whether you're in the middle of your studies or reminiscing about your time at university, we’re here to explore the highs, lows, and everything in between. From discussing myths about university life to the impact of COVID-19 to considering the real value of exams, join Ayesha, Kate and Angelica as they explore university life at UCL and beyond in thier own words!

Please note that the views and opinions expressed in this episode are those of our students and do not necessarily reflect the views of UCL.

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Episode One: Student Life

00:00:09:00 - 00:00:33:19

Angelica

On today's episode, we're talking about student life. As usual, we have some topic related questions in the chat that we'll pick out and discuss. I'm Angelica and I'm a first year BSc psychology student. I'm Kate. I'm a final year BA history student. I'm Aisha. I'm a final year history, politics and economics student. Okay. And for the first question, we're going to pick it out of the heart.

00:00:33:21 - 00:00:47:08

Kate

So. So do you guys think that university is worth the money? And what are the pros and cons and what have you gotten out of your university experience so far?

00:00:47:10 - 00:02:00:00

Ayesha

Quite a loaded question. Yeah. I would say university is great for the experiences and the education you get, especially like a world leading university like UCL. And I think it's great, but I think personally this is coming from a side of I think that education should be a universal right and it should be free. Especially seeing it in countries like Germany and Scotland, for example.

So from that point of view, I think education, I shouldn't have to pay that amount for the education. But in terms of if it's worth it, I would say yes, it is worth it, but I don't think it's worth it if they keep increasing the prices because, for example, they've recently increased it. So now I think a lot of people are turning more towards alternative.

So like degree apprenticeships, other like technical courses for example, which is great as well. But I think, I think ultimately you invest is great and it gives you completely different experience to an apprenticeship and stuff. But I don't think it's worth it if we keep having to increase prices, if that makes sense. What about you guys?

00:02:01:24 - 00:02:43:01

Kate

Yeah, I mean, like, we're all home students, right?

Like we all get the what was at 9.25 K. So I do think that the fact that universities can charge different amounts for different courses, for international students, I just think is a little bit mental and it's just quite unfair for a lot of people. But I don't know. I mean, at the end of the day, as you saw as you resign, it's literally like you're paying for a brand name, like to have on your CV, to have on you LinkedIn and all that.

And like, I mean, is a natural set for a lot of us to go to uni. But I don't know if it's necessarily the best thing that we could have available to us.

00:02:43:01 - 00:03:43:04

Angelica

I completely agree with both of you. And I think within the system that our society is in, of course, like there's this expectation for us to go to university. So in that sense, it feels worth it, but it almost feels like, I don't know, it's like there's no right way to do things. And also not everyone takes the same path in life. So again, like it doesn't apply to everyone, but we're probably doing what we're supposed to do. Whether that's worth it or not is definitely debatable, but I mean, I would say it's worth it. 

But again, as you both said, considering that fees are just rising and rising, it's like, okay, like it definitely is worrying because I'm like, okay. But then I don't know, like, you can't put a price on these things. And I don't know, I just feel like with time will people explore other options? Quite possibly.

00:03:43:05 - 00:04:46:09

Ayesha

I think for me, especially, like when I've been considering whether the university is worth it, is when I've been looking at Master's. So I think, like you said, like undergraduate feels quite a natural progression route for a lot of people, especially when we were paying. I think now that obviously, I think after we applied, more people started considering other things like degree apprenticeships. They started being more promoted. But I think now that I'm looking at my future prospects, for example, and even like job hunting, I'm like, is my degree even worth it in the sense of job hunting?

Like, is it even going to get me into the places I was promised? And hopefully it hopefully it does. Fingers crossed. I think we're still early in the stage, but even when I'm considering like Master's for example, it feels like is a Master's even worth the money? Because now, like Master's aren't the 9,000 pounds that home students pay Master's are, they're essentially what international students pay for their fees, so it varies by courses. Now it's like do I go to maybe a less known institution for a Master's degree? Or do I still go to a good name institution with, but being so much more debt, for example, or pay off so much more money for the same title essentially. So I guess that's kind of a bit of a conflict. And I understand where students come from.

00:04:46:10 - 00:05:17:02

Angelica

It's also quite daunting, because I feel like now obviously just undergrad is an expectation. But then it's like now I feel like even post grad and doing a Master's feels like an expectation. Like, oh, I am like all of my friends. Like, oh, well, I'll probably have to do a Master's. And it's like, okay, like, is that a shift in what we've been expected to do? I don't know, but it's just like, okay, how many more qualifications are we going to need to like feel comfortable once we're done with higher education?

00:05:17:02 - 00:06:11:00

Kate

We hosted a social yesterday with the 93% club, one of the kind of new attendees, he was like, oh, do you feel like there's like this there's kind of like pressure to do a Master's, like, are you going to do a Master's? Are you going to do a PhD? And all this and like I think a lot of people assume that to be able to get a good job, or any job even especially in London, that you, have to do a Master's and stuff and it's just, it's, it's just very unrealistic and it's very expensive.

And I don't think it's worth it unless you're, like, incredibly passionate about the subject where.

00:05:54:02 - 00:06:11:00

Ayesha

Like do you think like university is worth it in terms of the actual learning content wise? So for example, UCL is like named as one of the best universities in the world. Do you think academically it lives up to that? Or like it's worth the money that we pay for the education?

00:06:11:02 - 00:06:47:01

Kate

Dependent on course? I mean, since first year I've only had like between 8 and 10. Sometimes even six, kind of contact hours a week, which is pretty low considering, like, you know, you're paying nine grand a year. But I don't know. I mean, the reason why I chose this year was because I could do so many different kind of modules from different departments while studying history degree and, I really enjoyed that.So I don't know. And you can do that at a lot of other universities if you want to just study history. So I'm a fan. But yeah. 

00:06:47:01 - 00:07:38:21

Angelica

I mean, I love my degree so much. I think it's great, but it definitely does depend on the course. Like I think there's a lot of focus on my degree and to making it better and a lot of ongoing conversations surrounding that. I think people are very invested, but maybe with other degrees, from what I've heard from my friends, I'm just not sure if they'd say the same. But also it makes it makes me think of the year who were at university during Covid and stuff like that. Like they were at home with a laptop online. Like, would they say the same? 

Oh, it's worth it. Oh, it's not for this amount of money, I don't know. And considering as well, now we can do the same thing. Like we can literally stay at home and go and lecture class and catch up with lectures like, does that make it worth it? I don't know, it's just something to think about. What would you say?

00:07:38:23 - 00:08:06:01

Ayesha

Yeah, I, I definitely agree. I think especially that post-Covid it it's changed my perspective on how much I think like things are worth it now, especially because everything's so online. I'm honestly not sure. I'd say like it is still valuable. Like I've still gained the skills that are so transferable. And also, I think when it comes to university, I think it's more the life experiences you get alongside it. But again, it's the question of all those life experiences worth 10,000 pounds, for example.

00:08:06:02 - 00:09:19:14

Kate

Yeah. No, I agree though, because like, I mean at least my course, it's very seminar dominated, which means if you're not feeling well, let them out of times. I've tried to email a professor and be like, so any chance I could just listen in like via Teams and they're like, oh, we're not actually allowed to do that because, you know, everyone's got their own opinions and you can't broadcast that and stuff. But, I don't know. I guess that somewhat makes it worth it because you are like obliged to participate in stuff. And I do value your opinions. The whole point of seminars is so you can kind of, you know, learn and build your arguments and stuff like that.

But I don't know, I mean, the experiences that you can get alongside uni, especially at UCL, I mean, the fact that we were even, you know, doing a podcast like that's really cool. And like people at other unis don't get a chance to do that type of stuff. And the amount of kind of societies and committees you can be on, and just like little random things you can get, you can get up to in London. I think that's why I've really enjoyed UCL. But again, it's just very expensive. So it's not completely worth it.

But I don't know. It's good

00:09:19:14 - 00:09:20:00

Ayesha

Should we pick another one?

00:09:19:14 - 00:09:22:00

Angelica

Yeah.

00:09:19:14 - 00:09:21:03

Kate

Go on then.

00:09:25:02 - 00:09:27:03

Ayesha

Okay.

00:09:27:03 - 00:09:54:01

Ayesha

How important is it to know what you want to do after you complete your studies? And do you believe it's better to focus on the present or plan for the future? That's a good one, I think.it's

00:09:37:00 - 00:10:36:00

Kate

Quite moving, that. I mean, as a final year, it's it's a lot of pressure, to say the least. I mean, the amount of people that have the big, fat Excel spreadsheets of graduate scheme trackers and I was like, oh, yeah, I'm going to download the template. Yeah, I've never used it. And I kind of got to a point where I was like, it's taking so long to apply to jobs, graduate schemes and stuff. I was like, I should probably just focus on my degree and making sure I'm getting a good grade, because the amount of people that I know now, you know, in the final year where they're spending way more time on job applications than their dissertation or, you know, their exams and stuff, and it's like, is it worth just making sure that you've got a job as soon as you get out of uni so you can get that like LinkedIn post and be able to say that, you know, you've got on a job or is it better to, you know, focus on your degree and then, apply for a job after?

00:10:37:00 - 00:11:39:00

Angelica

I mean, I'm a first year, so I feel like I don't have to worry to too much right now. But, I mean, I don't know what I want to do with my degree. I know that I'm doing the right thing. I've always loved doing psychology, but at the same time it's like, what do I want to do with it afterwards? I'm not quite sure. And also, I feel like I don't want to do what most people want to do, which is clinical psychology. I'm much more interested in sort of research, but even within that, it's so broad. I don't quite know where I want to take it, but I also feel like there's such a competitive atmosphere, but I feel like it's a lot more talk than genuine in action, because I think people do feel insecure. So then they want to make themselves feel better by being like, oh, I've got it all sorted out. And it's like most of us probably haven't. So yeah, I think it's a hard one. But I mean, as of right now, I probably have the privilege to do so, but I'm definitely focusing on the present and just focusing on on my degree and just enjoying being a first year. And I have the rest to worry about.

00:11:39:11 - 00:12:03:22

Ayesha

I feel like my perspectives have changed quite a lot as I've gone on, but I think I kind of agree with what Kate said, and I think that a lot of people actually don't know what they want to do, and I think that's completely fine. I don't think you need to know at this present moment what you want to do after your studies, maybe having like a general idea on where you might want to go or the kind of routes, but you don't have to know exactly like what company you're going to land into, or like, where are you going to work, or how are going to do it. I think just having a general sense of the type of work you want to do that could be great, but I don't think you should or need to know, I guess exactly, step by step, what it is.

But that being said, I think in terms of whether to stay present or plan for the future, I think by working on yourself in the present, you are preparing yourself for the future. So like like you said, like focusing on your exams, your studies, for example. And just like developing your own self and your skills, I think that sets you up for success in the future rather than just shooting yourself in the foot, I guess a little bit in the dark. But I do think, yeah, just having like a sense of general direction where you want to go.

But I think most of it, like you said, is a lot of talk. I think no one actually knows what they're doing. And especially like in my course, a lot of people are very economics focused. So there's this big like focus on like investment banking, consulting, finance, the typical. So I think it feels a more pressured there. But I think when you actually ask people what they're actually doing and when you actually get to the bottom of it, no one actually really knows. And when everyone's a bit lost, everyone's like, oh, should I do a master's? Should I do a job? So I think relieve yourself of that pressure.

00:13:16:18 - 00:13:27:19

Angelica

Yeah. And UCL does have a great careers department like even me being first year, last week that we had a careers event and it was like obviously a very chill atmosphere because no one has to be worrying too much. But it was just a good sort of starter to ease us into. Start thinking about it and knowing which resources we can access to help us and stuff like that. So that's definitely there to support us, which I think is great, but I completely agree.

It's like you sort of with university, with that experience, you realize more what you might be interested in, like going into this, I never thought that I would like coding and I think everyone has the same sentiment. Like with psychology students, why would we want to do coding? But I've realized I actually really, really like it and I didn't expect to. So it's just exactly like using your degree to sort of being in the present and working out what you're interested in can definitely guide you to, yeah, on that path of where you want to take your career. Yeah.

00:14:14:00 - 00:14:15:00

Kate

Like you actually like coding?

00:14:15:00 - 00:14:15:00

Angelica

Yeah.

00:14:16:00 - 00:14:23:00

Kate

That's mental. I had to use Stata once for like one of my elective modules. And that's not even like proper coding. But that killed me off.

00:14:24:00 - 00:14:27:00

Angelica

Like was it a certain program like Python or?

00:14:27:00 - 00:14:28:00

Kate

Do you know Stata?

00:14:28:00 - 00:14:28:00

Angelica

No.

00:14:29:00 - 

Kate

No, it's it's just like as a history student for a 15 credit module in ESPS. They just threw me in at the deep end. And it was it was very interesting.

00:14:41:00 - 00:15:31:00

Angelica

It does feel like a different language. Like I'm doing R and it's definitely associated with stats which you do need to know for psychology. But again it's just like I think everyone was just like, yeah, but what does this have to do with memory or this or that?

But I think also I'm quite a competitive person in the sense that I want to get better at something if I feel uncomfortable with it first. So I don't know, like I just find it really fun, but I never expected to. So like now I'm sort of like, could I be doing something with that, you know, in a job or something to do with data science or research? And yeah.

All right. Thinking about your university experience so far, what do you wish you would have known when you started? And what would you have done differently?

00:15:34:15 - 00:15:38:17

Kate

I mean...

00:15:35:00 - 00:15:36:00

Ayesha

A long time now for us.

00:15:36:00 - 00:15:51:00

Kate

I know, I mean, it goes quick, but it's been a while. It's very normal to not find your, like, best, best friends, like friends for life straight away. And I think a lot of people put a bit too much pressure on themselves to do that, and I just think it's quite unrealistic really.

00:15:51:00 - 00:16:46:05

Angelica

Just looking at term one and term two, because that's all I have. I think in term one, I tried so hard to be an academic weapon, and I think because everyone is so scared, they try to do that too, or at least give off the impression that they're, you know, doing all this work and they've done this and that, and then you realize, oh my God, it's first year. Let me calm down. It's just like, take the moment to enjoy and make friends and just like, take advantage of the fact that it's only ever going to get harder. So just like, enjoy that time. And I just think I was just being way too serious in the sense that obviously it's good to do my work on time and this and that, and I'm still doing that because those are still things that are important to me. Like obviously. But I just think I was putting myself under way too much pressure, like spending seven hours in the library. For what? Like, why was I doing that in first year and it wasn't...

00:16:46:05 - 00:16:48:09

Kate

I don't think I've ever done that to be fair.

00:16:48:09 - 00:16:57:22

Angelica

And it was just to make, I think, just to make myself feel like I was on top of things. But now I'm just like, okay, like, let's, it's okay because I don't have to be doing that. And I can still be turning work in on time and doing all the things that I need to do without, like putting myself under a ton of pressure. And I feel like my mental health has benefited a lot from doing that and making those changes. So I would say that for sure.

00:17:14:01 - 00:17:39:21

Ayesha

I'm honestly not sure what I'd want to know. I think, I think for me, kind of what you said, like nothing's ever that serious, but I think, I mean that in the sense of both, like, life and also just like academics wise, obviously focus on your academics do well and stuff, but I think, not having that pressure on yourself to be like the best from the start because it's such a learning curve and it's such like a, an experience that you develop as well.

So like my, the way I study now is so much better than what I was doing last year. I don't know what I was doing last year, but it wasn't great. But this year I'm so much more like, I guess, understanding of what works for me. So I feel like just having that, like not having that pressure like you said, like and realizing that nothing is ever that deep in that sense.

But also I'd say like, I'd probably say to... one thing I wish I'd known is just how many resources that are out there and to use and how many opportunities. And I think that's one thing I didn't really have a grasp of until I came, because I thought that certain things were very, in a straight line, in a straight path, I guess. That you only could access certain things this way or that way, but the fact that there's so many resources, both in terms of academic support, and like even careers and even just like life support, not life support, that sounds like a medical emergency, but just support in general for general things. So like finance, for example, there's so much support out there and I feel like I didn't really take full advantage of it until maybe last year or like this past year where I've been talking to academics and tutors and stuff, and there's so many opportunities I could have gotten involved in, but I didn't because I didn't, like, realize if that makes sense.

But yeah, just maybe opening my eyes a bit more and realizing what's out there. But also, I think in that sense, kind of going back to my pressure point, I think there's always a way out of things, especially at university, because of the resources, if that makes sense. You know, like there's always a path out of whatever you're struggling with or whatever you're finding difficult.

00:19:16:00 - 00:19:26:14

Kate

I don't know, I feel like I'm still struggling to kind of find my feet in terms of studying and making sure I'm actually doing the work I need to and stuff like that. But there's always support and like you can get like study skills, support. You can, you know, just speak to your tutors. Yeah, lecturers about stuff and are always, you know, happy to help

00:19:40:00 - 00:19:43:00

Ayesha

Who's turn it is to pick? My turn maybe. Yeah.

00:19:43:00 - 00:19:45:00

Kate

You maybe, go for it. Go for it.

00:19:45:00 - 00:20:13:00

Ayesha

Can't remember.

Oh okay. Assessment methodology, particularly examinations, are often criticized for not being a true measure of learning. For example, students often forget, everything they've learned once the exam is over. So how much value do you think exams have? And if not very much. What do you think ought to replace them?

00:20:14:14 - 00:21:58:00

Kate

I mean, I've got a bit too much to say on this topic. I mean, I've always tried to pick modules that were solely essay based as a history student. Luckily there aren't too many exams. And if there are they're, you know, usually like online written exams, like you just kind of get questions on a portal and then you have to hand it in within three hours, within like three hours. And you just write like your answers to them or whatever.

But this year I chose to, do my dissertation at KCL, which is another really cool thing about UCL as well. I did a module at KCL last year. And it was, you know, really fab, I will say. KCL's admin, it's definitely worse than UCL, so not even biased with that one, but, yeah, I'm doing my dissertation at King's, and, we've all found out that our exams are going to be in-person, unwritten for 30 credits of, you know, your final year, which is a lot of pressure.

And I think for some subjects, it just doesn't really make sense to have a written exam at least. Because, say, with history is you need to know historians arguments. You need to know, you know, all these facts and you need to, it's just very unrealistic, I think, to expect that people can handwrite all their arguments about this huge topic, with no notes next to them. And I just don't know if exams are necessarily the most effective way of assessing students. At least written exams with history, but I don't know. What do you guys think?

00:21:58:00 - 00:22:45:11

Angelica

I mean, it's not like you ever really going to do exams in the real world once you're done with university, right? Like, why can't we just do coursework for all our assessments?

Like, I don't see why not. And obviously everyone's different. I probably would say I prefer coursework, some people actually quite like exams, but yeah, I don't know. I think it's a hard one. I think balance is the most important thing. Definitely having a mix of both. And I do think universities have started to integrate more coursework because they realize that actually that may be a better measure of students ability within the subject. But yeah, I think with exams it's still debatable to the extent in which they are a good measure of what students have learned.

00:22:45:11 - 00:23:31:00

Ayesha

I think, even though like coursework isn't a true representation of what your abilities are because like, we might be writing authentically, but there the several students who aren't writing as authentically or maybe even people are paying to write or pay other people to write their, coursework, for example. I know, I know, in our course there's probably definitely people that do that not to like, not to name and shame or anything.

Do you think that as a society or like at university, for example, they've become too lenient with examinations, for example? Or do you think that is still, still kind of goes back to the original question. Do you think it still measures ability or do you think that too, like not soft with it, but lenient, I guess, with how things are assessed.

00:23:31:00 - 00:24:09:22

Angelica

Sometimes I feel that way when, but not in a serious way. I'm like, okay, this is a good thing. But I'm so like, oh wow, they just get nicer, a nicer, but I do think these things have been changing in more recent years, but definitely for the better and to make it more accessible to people, because I just feel like there's definitely an old fashioned way of doing things which I don't know for students who are neurodiverse or learn in a different way, probably isn't the best method for them to learn. And so I just think we're changing it like it sometimes does feel quite lenient. But at the same time, as long as it's helping people and making learning easier for them, then I support it.

00:24:09:22 - 00:25:06:22

Kate

And I mean, everyone always has tough times, like the fact that they've just introduced that DAP thing, what is it, delayed assessment permit, I want to say. And that's basically, just to well, I'm guessing it's to stop so many EC's having to be approved independently by UCL staff. But, I think it's really good because the fact that, you know, if if you've had a particularly tough week or all your assignments are building up, the fact that any student at UCL can just put a quick thing in that basically, just like I don't even know how to say it, just like you confirm it yourself, like no one has to kind of review it. I think that's really good.

So yeah, but I think the leniency is good because it's, it's it's really hard like they don't know what what's going on with everyone's lives. And they've got to make sure they're following their duty of care.

00:25:06:22 - 00:25:19:00

Angelica

Last question is how is life changed for you pre and post Covid? Do you feel a change in yourself and others, wider community and world?

00:25:19:00 - 00:27:49:24

Ayesha

Well, I think in terms of terms of society wise, I think technology has become easier. So like for example, everything was online. So now like working from home and like flexible work is more easy and is more accessible, which I, I guess is great in terms of that sense because it definitely helps more people access careers, for example. So that's I guess the major thing that's changed. But and now, like even at university, like you have the option if you needed, for example, to like watch it back in like the lectures and stuff.

But in terms of what I think has changed, I think there's been a shift socially, and it's just like how different for example, I think now, it might have been also the rise of technology as well and other social media platforms as well. But now how we I guess, deal with things and how we perceive things and like for example, the news and also different world events, I think how those now are treated compared to before is completely different.

And again, I think a lot of it is due to the rise of social media, for example, and rise of like platforms like TikTok and how we actually interpret things. But yeah, there's there's been like this shift in how we, I guess, deal with things. Maybe I couldn't really tell you what the shift is for. I just know there is like a shift, I guess, whether people are more serious or maybe less serious, I guess it could go both ways.

But socially, how we interact with each other as well now, I think, well, technology's always been on the rise. Ever since we were young, for example. Like, it was quite, it was quite prominent when we were growing up. But I think now, even socially, I think a lot of events that are like now online, for example, or live streamed or like for example, like even, if you go to like restaurants and bars where everything's online or on an iPad, I think that's one thing I've kind of noticed, and it's not something I'd say I'm the biggest fan of, because I feel like it's kind of that social interaction a little bit.

And at the end, during the pandemic, I understood why obviously like to prevent like spreading and stuff between people. But now I think we've just kind of lost that, bit of society a little bit and everything's so digital that it feels that like, and it goes back to like the whole ChatGPT thing is all like the rise of. I'm passionate or otherwise, I but I don't know if in a good way or not, but how like AI is affected everything as well. And how like it's just like taking away that human aspect.

00:27:49:24 - 00:28:07:07

Angelica

It does feel a little bit dystopian just going into a restaurant and there are people there, but you're just ordering off a screen and it's like, okay, but yeah, where is that social interaction? Also like those are jobs that could be and now they're just being taken away because it's just like you can replace it with a screen. It's like, I don't think that's a good thing,

00:28:07:07 - 00:29:12:00

Kate

The way people meet each other has changed as well. Like I feel like sometimes at a social, I'll meet someone and then like we get on really well. I'll like add them on Instagram or something like that. And then you'll just end up becoming like best pals on the internet. But then you can barely ever see each other because, like, you're so busy or just because, like, you've almost created a relationship which feels like it's like almost like strictly just like on social media, if that makes sense. I don't know, it's like you, I feel like having having to spend so much time inside with Covid during like key years where I feel like our social skills really develop, it kind of makes me overthink a bit more about, like, if I meet this person in person, like just us, is it going to be awkward? Like, what's it going to be like? Like, you know, we have good chat ove text. But are we actually going to be good mates in real life? It's it's I don't know I feel like Covid made that really weird.

00:29:12:00 - 00:29:54:00

Angelica

Yeah. It's also it just feels like so long ago, even though it's not that I always just think like basically with everything, like, even today I had an online event and I was like, okay, but if Covid hadn't happened, would this be online or would it be in person? Like, I feel like so many things are online now and I'm like, did this ever used to be a thing? Or like, I just I just can't remember, like, okay, but if Covid hadn't happened, I don't know, would we be having team meetings all the time or zoom meetings or whatever? But yeah, it's just I just it's just about like, I don't know, weighing the odds of what do we lose if we're not doing things in person around each other? And yeah, having that kind of social interaction.

00:29:54:00 - 00:30:49:23

Ayesha

There's been this shift in how susceptible we are, I guess, to kind of fake news, for example. And it's actually what my dissertation is on is about fake news consumption between Eastern and Western Europe, and it's the whole like susceptibility and how like being I think what I think is so interesting is how like pre-COVID I think maybe we were a bit more aware of things or maybe a bit less susceptible to being accepting of everything we see. But as soon as lockdown happened, all we saw was things online, on the news, on TikTok, on Twitter, for example. And I think once that like now that it's out there, everything is just so easy to like, manipulate. So I think we've lost like authenticity in that sense as well, in terms of that's the kind of shift I was kind of talking about socially and societal was like, we've lost that kind of authenticity in terms of what we actually know is to be true. What we know is to be fake. I feel like there's very blurred lines now

00:30:49:23 - 00:32:04:17

Kate

I totally agree. I mean, I really want to read your diss now. Like, you better get it done quick so I can have an nosey. I think also the fact that we were locked in our houses for a while, well, more than a while, but, you know, whenever we did see something on the internet would only really speak to our family members or whoever you were living with at that time.

And I feel like it's hard because when we'd see the news, we'd talk about it with friends. We talk about it with, like, a a variety of different people. I feel like Covid meant that you couldn't get those insights, or you could, but like, you know, on social media, where people can't properly express their opinions because, you know, it's over text, they're trying to do it quickly.

And then also by people who are spreading fake news and all that, on social media platforms. And, you know, we're also kind of deluded in a way, with Covid that we would often kind of just accept that and be like, oh, yeah, that's what that meant. So I don't know. I definitely think Covid changed that. And I mean, the way everything's going at the minute, it's very interesting to consider how lockdowns affected that, really.

00:32:04:17 - 00:32:18:00

Ayesha

One thing I think about a lot is like the literacy gap that's happened in education or not even literacy, just the education gap that happened pre-COVID and after Covid.

What do you think about that from like a more psychological, psychology perspective? I feel like you'd probably have insights.

00:32:21:00 - 00:32:25:15

Angelica

You've put me on the spot there.

What do you think?

00:32:25:15 - 00:32:28:12

Kate

Putting her back on the spot now. What's happening?

00:32:28:12 - 00:33:13:00

Ayesha

For me, I think. I just think it's so interesting that I know it's slightly off topic, but I think that's one of the biggest things I've noticed in like versus pre-COVID versus now. I think there's been such a shift in education levels as well. And I was watching like, I was reading like these articles about how children in like, primary schools and, nurseries, for example, they're not actually getting to the reading ages they should be at, and they're actually really far behind. So now a lot, and especially a lot of the children that were born during Covid, for example, they're not, because they spent a lot of their development years inside, they don't really have outside interaction outside of their close family. Suddenly they're then just not reaching the levels of development they should be, which I think is quite interesting.

00:33:13:00 - 00:33:50:16

Kate

But the whole iPad like sticky iPad baby. And yeah, I was like, the one thing that makes me really sad about that generation is like, I remember seeing a video years ago and I've never forgotten it. And it was like asking kids like, oh, how would you use a phone? And they went like that. And I was like, what happened to this everyone? And like little things like that. And I mean, obviously that's with the rise of technology. But I feel like for a lot of, you know, younger kids, especially like pre kind of high school level, like, you know, before the age of 12, I feel like Covid has really affected their development.

00:33:50:16 - 00:34:56:10

Angelica

And it's scary because it's like we have to sort of wait and see, like what the actual effects of them. But like the fact that they're already articles coming out saying, okay, they're just not at the level they're supposed to be at. It's like, okay, will they be able to catch up? Or like, I don't know, it's scary. And it's a weird thing to think about that. Yeah, I think Covid had some really detrimental effects on young children's development.

I can barely write anymore. Like I find that when I handwrite, it's like it feels alien. I've completely let go of what that was because everything's just so online now. And also like if you have exam accommodations and stuff like that, like I type and I type through all my exams. So handwriting just feels like I never do it any more. But yeah, whether that matters or not, I don't know. I'm probably not stimulating a part of my brain that I would if I was handwriting but, at the same time, we are living in a very digital age, so maybe that's just the way that things are progressing. Anyway,

00:34:56:10 - 00:35:21:15

Kate

I mean, I still have that. Did you guys ever get the callous things on your fingers? It's never gone away for me. And that stuff was weird. It's like I only ever write in like a planner. I'd be, like, once a week or something like that. I'll write a little post-it note, but, I feel like we're so used to. We were, oh, sorry, we were. So is, writing in, like, exams and not in school, but not anymore.

00:35:21:15 - 00:36:06:00

Ayesha

I'd say my memory has altered a little bit, but not like, I don't mean to say that I've forget everything, but I feel like. I feel like my memory isn't as good as it was. And I don't know if that's just me getting slightly older than I was before, but at the same time, like, I think Covid affected how you remember things as well, because especially like how quickly things have moved since Covid, for example. I think sometimes I catch myself, I'm like, did that even happen? Did that like, what did I even like, even if I'm trying to remember what I did, like the other day, I'm like, what did I actually do? I don't really, you know, because I feel like everything feels so blurred. So I feel like in that sense, I kind of changed. Like how well I remembered things. Maybe I should go get something checked out

00:36:06:12 - 00:36:41:10

Angelica

Well, like, I mean, it is sort of like we lost two, three years of our lives. And also, like I swear our brains are still growing and developing. But I completely agree. Like, there are literally days where I'm like, oh my God, I could not tell you what I did two days ago. And it really worries me because I'm like, where is that coming from? But it probably is a mix of just like psychological effects of Covid and also physiological as well. Like, I don't know, we don't know what it could have done to our brains. But again, it's just I don't know, it's just so many factors, but memory for sure. I think Covid had a big effect on that.

00:36:41:10 - 00:37:34:00

Ayesha

I think I developed like personally quite a lot as well because I think you just had so much time to think about everything. And there was like there was nowhere to go. So I think I just spent like a lot of time reevaluating, like kind of who I wanted to be where, which sounds so philosophical, but I genuinely and it also might have been just like the part of growing up as well at that age, because we were like early teenagers, for example.

And just like I think Covid made me realize, like kind of who I wanted to be and I guess who I wanted to come across as too, like other people, for example, like, not even in that sense, just like, I guess, who I wanted to, you know what I mean? Like, I think I fully had this, like moment where it's like, you know what? Like nothing matters that much. Like I'm going to be whoever I am, like, you know, I'm not really afraid of anything. But I think I changed in that sense. Like, I kind of had this epiphany.

00:36:35:00 - 00:37:36:00

Kate

That's so poetic.

00:36:36:00 - 00:37:37:00

Ayesha

Thank you.

00:37:38:14 - 00:38:35:12

Kate

Well, I reckon. I mean, I'm trying to think of what I did during Covid, helped out in, like, the garden a lot back home. Actually, like, lost a bit of weight, which is what I'd been wanting to do for years. And then just played, like, Sims 3 for the rest of the main lockdown.

But I think I definitely had the same kind of thing. I was like, oh, this is what I want. I don't want to be friends with people who are like, who I don't feel comfortable with or that say like little mean things and stuff. And then, I was like, I want to try harder and stuff like that. And then that's what happened. But I feel like over the years I've just kind of turned a bit senile in terms of how I'm like, my memory is awful, as you guys are saying. And like, I don't know, I just think it because life feels like it's going so fast. It's like you can't even catch up.

00:38:35:12 - 00:39:13:00

Angelica

I also feel like just being on social media, I'm sure we all had an increase in like our screen time during Covid and stuff like that, because what else was there to do? But like, we also know social media has such a big impact on our short term memory as well.

And like just our attention span. And I always wonder as well, like God, what effects could that have? Because like, it's not like these things go away, obviously. Like there have been changes post-Covid and like we have gone better integrating ourselves into the real world. But like I'm sure there are still, well I know, there are still lingering effects of that. And, yeah.

00:39:14:00 - 00:40:32:06

Ayesha

It's interesting you say that because I think one of the biggest issues that actually have come out of Covid, not that I think about, is actually procrastination and how like because if I think about how like, well, I was able to focus and = how well I was able to study for so long for like GCSEs, for example, I was doing like multiple nights like, and I was going through every subject and memorizing everything like flashcards, mind maps, you know.

But now I think, like, I even struggle to, like, get like even a small portion of my essay written in one go without, like, picking up my phone without turning to talk to my friends, for example. And I think Covid had a lot to do with the whole attention span. Like we're just not like it took out so many, like so much of our spatial and like cognitive focus, I guess.

So I think, yeah, that's like one of the biggest issues because now, like I talk to my friends and we were talking about how, I guess, like academically where when we were doing these exams and how well, like, you know, we could go to like class 8:00 till 4:00 straight after one on each other. But now, like if I do one class at uni, I'm like absolutely shattered. I need to go home. Exactly. You know. Exactly. And I think part of it's like just not being used to like I think and I think we'll feel it for like quite a long time. To be fair, the whole procrastination and like not even laziness, just the lack of ability to focus.

00:40:32:06 - 00:41:20:09

Kate

Literally, pretty much as soon as, everything was semi back to normal, I guess. And when the A-level exams were, that's when I got diagnosed with ADHD and I was like, oh right. I've actually got a diagnosis to slap on to this, I feel like I probably noticed it more post-Covid, like the symptoms more, when I had started my A-levels. You know, the whole kind of attention span thing. And then I was like, is this something more? But now that you guys have said that, like that is interesting that everyone experienced that. But, yeah. Then I got diagnosed, but I think Covid definitely kind of brought out those symptoms a bit more because I feel like I'd been suppressing them for a long time.

00:41:20:11 - 00:41:57:00

Ayesha

I'm just so interested in like cognitive behaviors and like, like behavioral economics as you can tell. The diagnosis, if you don't mind, I actually think that I think that Covid actually like helped. I guess, more people were able to get diagnosis, if that makes sense. I don't know how you feel about that, but I think from what I was reading and what I've heard from, it helped, like bring, bring to the surface like more people's, I guess, their symptoms, for example.

00:41:58:00 - 00:42:32:12

Kate

I mean, there is like a massive influx. I feel like this especially happened after Covid because everyone was just like frantically posting videos about random stuff on TikTok and stuff, being like, you've got ADHD if you can't wash your dishes straight away or something like that, and it's like it's, you know, a lot of people were like, oh my God, do I have it? And like, understandably, like a lot of people do have it, a lot more people have it than anyone ever expected. But there's just a lot of people that were sure they had it. And then it kind of it's just like the whole thing with self-diagnosing nowadays, a lot of people do.

00:42:32:12 - 00:43:08:07

Angelica

Do you think, like it can kind of become a, not a self-fulfilling prophecy? Like, sort of like what you're saying, like, okay, now I have this diagnosis of, I don't know, like a part of my behavior. Therefore, like, in a way, I can sort of what you were saying, you sort of explained it, but it's just interesting to me to think about, like, I don't know, the benefits and also the disadvantages of having a diagnosis and how that can possibly, like negatively impact your behavior as well. Like, I don't know the way you actually think about things.

00:43:08:12 - 00:44:21:00

Kate

Yeah. I mean, advantages for me was being able to be medicated is because, you know, the ADHD medication is like a controlled drug. So they're very careful about that. And that has really helped me. Although over time I just feel like I've almost become a bit resistant to it because I'm just used to it. So I'm not as much in, like, the kind of focused mindset as I initially was.

But another advantage is, just knowing that I'm not inept and that there is actually something that explains why I am like, how I am. Because I think I just like, was like, why am I like this for years? And now I understand why. And it's just like, I just feel a bit more chill about it.

It's, it's a really weird scenario, especially because no one ever flagged it in school because we, you know, did relatively well but could never, revise or focus. It was really weird. But I don't know, it's an interesting one, that was a bit of a ramble, but yeah.

00:44:22:00 - 00:44:44:03

Angelica

Thanks for tuning into Campus Conversations. We hope you had as much fun listening as we did chatting. If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to like and follow us on our various podcast streaming platforms linked in the bio.

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