Transcript

31 October 2022

Marie-Annick Moreau - 0:00  

Hello! I’m Marie-Annick Moreau, an environmental anthropologist based at University College London in the UK. I’m part of the Human Ecology Research Group, a network of researchers and students interested in understanding the connections between people and nature.

Recently, my colleague Emily Woodhouse and I have been thinking about the relationships between women and nature in particular and speaking with researchers, policy makers and NGO workers to better understand how and why gender matters for biodiversity conservation.

The timing is no accident: it’s December 2022, and gender equality is going to be on the agenda at the world’s largest meeting on conservation, the Conference of the Parties to the UN Convention on Biological Diversity.

The Convention has 193 members, referred to as Parties, and those countries’ negotiators, together with representatives from Indigenous and Local Communities, NGOs, universities, business and many other groups are gathering for part two of the 15th Conference of the Parties now taking place in my hometown of Montreal, Canada. It’s a bit freezing cold at this time of year, but delegates probably won’t get much of a chance to leave the conference rooms in any case, as they have a huge task ahead: they are meeting to finalise and adopt a gameplan for halting and reversing biodiversity loss by 2030. This plan is called the post22 Global Biodiversity Framework, and among its targets for saving nature, one up for negotiation is Target 22, on gender equality.

The target is a relatively new one, and it appears in the draft Global Biodiversity Framework thanks to the efforts of a wide coalition of civil society groups and their allied country negotiators. That’s why I’m so excited to have had the chance to speak with Prudence Galega ahead of COP15, as she has been one of the key actors in this long process.

Prudence formerly served as a jurist, prosecutor, judge and deputy attorney general in Cameroon. Her legal expertise has seen her lead global negotiations on biodiversity and gender equity and equality at the UN, including in her role as Chair for the African group of negotiators. I wanted to speak to Prudence about what motivates her personally to champion the issue of gender equality, about why it is important to involve women in biodiversity conservation, and how building gender equality considerations into international policy frameworks can have a real impact on the ground.

She told me that her advocacy for the natural world is deeply rooted in her experience of growing up in rural Cameroon.

Prudence Galega - 05:47

In terms of my background, my roots where I come from, nature of biodiversity is core, to my survival, and that of my people. In fact, I come from one of the rural communities of Cameroon. That is located in the savanna region that has a lot of mountain ecosystems as well. And this community largely depends on the flow of services from the ecosystems I grew up from, from that, in fact, our livelihood or survival was dependent on what we could get from nature. So nature is actually at the heart of my survival because even if today I live out of that community, my whole family, my, my, my well being in terms of how I relate with them, that feeling is still there. But unfortunately, that community in that ecosystem first, in Cameroon from recent assessment, is one with the fastest depleting wild species, in fact, from the mountain ecosystems the studies show that 30% of highly valuable endemic wild species have been depleted within a span of three decades. That’s pretty fast.

It’s also one of the ecosystems where a lot of introduced species have led to low water levels and you see women highly impacted with having to search for water especially with efforts today national efforts to provide public water systems. There have been failures we know that across most developing countries, and so depending on watershed is critical for rural poor communities like that. It’s a community that is in one of the most conflict War conflict regions and you can clearly see the impact on women who have to go distances to provide for their welfare of their families, be it family, food security, water security, or health security, then little petty businesses, small income activities are largely dependent on nature that is depleted and their livelihood is highly compromised or aggravated with conflict.

So I come from a region that is experiencing quite a lot in terms of the interdependence of humans, their ecosystems, and the extent to which this contributes not only to development, but to their well being.  In fact, I come from the region. It’s not pleasant to state this but it is a reality. And I see the link with nature where the greatest and the worst cases of gender based violence is prevalent. It’s the region where a lot of young girls are being extracted for purposes of trafficking, child trafficking, young girls trafficked because they do not find their survival, that nature is not able to sustain their survival, and either voluntarily or out of ignorance. They are giving themselves up to cases of migration, which end up with their been violated for several purposes. So there is a great link between nature and the fight against poverty and human rights. And I come from that region where it is real. That’s my background. And you can understand why I am a dedicated advocate for the protection of biodiversity and besides, I’m also an advocate, you would find out in combating the worst forms of gender-based violence in my country.

Marie-Annick Moreau - 11:40

Thank you, Prudence.

Okay, can you tell us more about how you’re able to be an advocate within your professional role?

Prudence Galega - 11:52

It’s not because I am a judge, or a prosecutor, that I dissociate myself not only am I looking at sanctions, but I’m also looking at preventive measures.  As a legal expert, I had found myself associated to environmental issues, especially in 1992 when the Rio conventions were adopted in most developing countries, this set in place a new movement internally to you know, translate the provisions of this conventions into national reality and the need for reform several policy reforms. And this whole process required a multidisciplinary approach and a number of legal experts were brought in, probably not as legal experts in environmental issue, but to be able to bring in their expertise in assessments in drafting and this is how I found myself or in environmental issues, because again, my government designated me into one of the projects. It was a coastal and marine project at the time,

Marie-Annick Moreau - 

Prudence, you mentioned the Rio Conventions, of which there are 3: on climate change, on combating desertification, and on biodiversity. The climate change convention gets a lot of media attention, but for those listening who are not familiar with the convention on biological diversity, it was the first global instrument set up under the United Nations for countries to specifically agree on how to protect nature. The specific objectives of the convention are to:

• conserve biological diversity
• ensure its sustainable use
• and make sure that the benefits arising from the use of genetic resources, as a component of biodiversity, are fairly and equitably shared

So as you can imagine, the negotiations are complicated, and while the Conference of the Parties happens every two years, in between there is a lot of legwork done by meetings of subsidiary bodies and working groups. Countries also need to monitor their progress in putting those policies they’ve agreed to at the negotiations into action on the ground, which is where tools like national ecosystem assessments come in, but also other plans that help to support implementation like national biodiversity strategy and action plans. Prudence, what has been your experience with those aspects of the convention?

Prudence Galega - 

I chaired several working groups in the negotiations. And I think that helps me to generate a lot of experience and a better understanding today. As a result of the work I have done to assess the impact that these instruments have had since they were adopted in 2010.

In fact, if I’m presently in the UK, is because of the national ecosystems assessments that are carried out at the World Conservation and Monitoring Centre here in the UK and that assessment, which was innovative in its sense in Cameroon and the pilot countries that were part of this process led to an understanding of several key issues, which today, we think is helping us as we get engaged in the negotiations for a new global biodiversity framework. After the 2010s strategic planning it targets came to term in 2020. And in specific in relevance to gender. I may not have been core in the gender process, but I came in at strategic moments and I was very much engaged in the translation of the gender or Global Gender Action Plan into the national biodiversity, Strategy and Action Plans which were principal instruments for delivery at national level. From a global perspective, that’s what I was able to do to contribute to the global discussions and you know, the little window in terms of contributing to ensure that gender considerations are defined at a global level and, you know, brought into National Instruments to orient national action.

Marie-Annick Moreau - 

Thank you Prudence. Actually. I think that would be really useful if you could give examples of how these international agreements get translated down to the national level, because I think people who are outside of the process sometimes don’t see the connection between what’s happening in the negotiations and what actually happens on the ground afterwards. So yes, if you want to give us some examples of how gender considerations were built into the national biodiversity and action strategy plans, that would be really helpful.

Prudence Galega - 21:08

Yes, I think that is a major challenge. The global assessments definitely highlight The great, I would say dichotomy between this multilateral agreements generally, not only to environment, and the way these translate at the local level, and I think we saw this clearly in the CBD. It starts from the negotiation itself, and where the negotiation is not informed by the national priorities, we are likely to come up with global priorities and orientation that don’t speak to the countries and this is a big issue today. Are we looking at it globally? Has this an impact or is based on national circumstances? This is a big debate today but the responsibility lies on those who are involved in the negotiations. What comes out as a final consensus, how this is taken back home, the extent to which you create awareness and knowledge nationally on what these global orientations are…For them to see the benefits that this provides to the country—because largely it is in terms of how this will bring about change and contribute to the well being at a national level, at the local level, where the local people were, where the women are—how they see the benefits that these global orientations, if implemented, can bring to them.

It’s very pleasing to find out that where the policies are gender positive, sensitive, they can drive significant change. I’ll give some examples. The national policy for forest and environment,. that integrated the participation of women, and actually brought the concept of decentralized management as an option for the effective management of the forest. And so as a result of that policy, we found out an explosion of community based approaches and structures that were put in place to manage the forest. So community based resource management options began to bring in the participation of women. Inadequately this was but at least we could see some significant move in the integration of women, especially women, who had organized themselves in clusters, as networks, as associations as NGOs.

You found little market women come in clusters, women farmers come in clusters. They now found platforms where their voices could be heard. And so within those processes, you found representatives of those platforms. So in the last 10-20 years, there was an explosion of women platforms, and these platforms being represented or participating, I would say it was more the issue of participation, participating in some processes. However, the big challenge we observed was that participation alone is inadequate, it needs to be accompanied with other means that would ensure equality and equity. And what do I mean for example? Participation needs capacity for participation to effectively contribute.

So there was need for their capacity to further be built. It also required that beyond that, a special attention be given to their knowledge. Women have unique knowledge, especially women in local communities. It was not just looking at it, knowledge systems globally, but what are those specific rules and the knowledge we may have in relation with nature? In the recent assessment. we found out that conservation, especially of wild species, largely depends on women’s knowledge, because when they harvest, women keep seeds, select the selection process, where they can already identify seeds that will be of greater value for the next season. And we found women who were already able to highlight and state that species that are more defined, cannot be reproduced. And so if we need to keep wild species, we need to separate them from those species that are modified, because we want to improve production. And you see they have very unique knowledge.

So the whole concept of food security largely depends, 80% of it depends on women. And unless we can identify these links, when translating those policies, we would find out that the whole, you know, the key determinants of wellbeing, like food security, health security, water security, which depend on women will not be attained. This was my experience in Cameroon and from discussing with other developing countries I think this is a key issue. And we need to see how back at the global level, we can look at, you know, gender considerations and how the GBF can provide a global orientation for this to be redressed.

Marie-Annick Moreau - 

Excellent, thank you, I think that brings us really naturally to talking about the negotiations in December and maybe around this idea of incorporating a target specific to gender and the global biodiversity framework. If you want to maybe talk us through that a little bit and the specific role of the African group of delegates

Prudence Galega - 07:12

The negotiations of the global biodiversity framework to me personally in this process for almost more than 10 years, has been one of the most contentious one, maybe as a result of COVID. The negotiations were protracted and enough opportunity, wasn’t there negotiations virtually, especially to African countries that are just adapting to the use of modern technology, especially for purposes of negotiations. It’s a major challenge. And so we found a protracted negotiation. But which to some extent, has been beneficial, because it’s given us time to think and think appropriately on what should be the key priorities. What are the goals we want to collectively put in place to be able to address the alerts that come from not only the global assessments of IPBES but that’s also coming from the National assessments. business as usual, in the way we use biodiversity the way we relate with nature is leading to a very disturbing trend, not only in accelerated loss, but the impact this will have for human beings and future generations,.

There is some level of consensus that gender is a key issue. I think in initial discussions the main issue was how then to address it. To address it as a cross cutting issue, or to address it as an issue that needs a specific orientation. I think this was the only major problem I saw with gender. But however, in the last negotiations, I think, open ended working group three and four, the global community came to a consensus that even if a number of issues are cross cutting issues, we need to be able to define clear targets for them. And I think that is where we saw target 21, target 22 come up. While target 21 to others may be an issue for indigenous and local communities, there are those who think women as well in those communities should have a focus. It’s still in brackets. Target 22 came in with the concept of women and young girls. Because here we are looking even as women, there are perspectives that are peculiar to young girls, and which need to be brought in. I don’t think there is any contention on that. But the issue is, where is the core focus? Which one? I think that’s where the issue is.

To me it’s not the issue of participation. It’s not just about participation. It is more the issue of their voices, they themselves based on the capacity they have been given based on the means at their disposal to be able to effectively contribute and get their voices into the decision making processes. globally, nationally, and at local levels. If you look at the issues of which we need to deliver to ensure that there’s gender equality, we are talking of land issues. That’s key. Land to me is key, water is also key. Yet the issue of access to land is still under-captured. It is a major issue. It is addressed in different sectors. So mainstreaming and getting sectoral buy in an implementation is an issue. If you look at compensation, I take an easy issue of compensation. Who are those benefiting? from nature? Where does the benefit go? Of course, there is still an issue of communities generally and not having the benefits adequate, fair, equitable benefits then if you look at those who are greatest disadvantage, there’s a women it’s the women so we’d be we need a more…

What I’m trying to say is while we are talking about an ambitious global biodiversity framework? To me that ambition can only come not just because there is a target that will be written there. But we need the commitment, to be sure that those targets will be translated to the local level. We need the commitment to ensure that the means will be given for those targets to be implemented and the means to women. And the resources and the benefits will be shared taking into consideration women. Women are more than 50%. But definitely the benefits are not 50%. Women representation in my country political representation has triggered from 8% to 30%. Although they makeup more than 51%. We have instituted a decentralized system of government. It’s shocking. W men are 8% in the regional councils. Multiscale support means, if the GBF has to be real, multiscale and multisectoral. And we need the financial means to enable that happen. And we need to build the capacity of women to make it happen. That’s where the whole discussion and debate is in the negotiations that are ongoing.

Marie-Annick Moreau -

So clear, you’ve laid that out so clearly for us. Thank you. We’re coming to the near nearly the end. But I was thinking maybe, maybe we could finish by talking about men a little bit because when we talk about gender, it’s not just about thinking only of women. What role is there for men in getting involved in changing harmful social norms, or joining whether it’s in the negotiations or implementation to try to give more rights to women over biodiversity?

Prudence Galega - 17:22

In ensuring that both men and women have equal opportunities, have equal access, have equal control over resources. You would find out that the disadvantaged is largely the women. and that’s why you’re looking at what do you need to do to bring women to the same level of access the same level of control having the same level of benefits as their counterpart men. So this is where the issue of women’s rights comes to address the imbalance the inequality and the inequity. There’s always been a big question. Who will grant the equality that’s a big question in my country. Who will grant it? This is the question. Are we only looking at processes or we are looking at the basic relationship between men and women? And I think that is where it comes from. And it’s a whole issue of besides policy and the rest. The perception, societal perception of these different roles: How do women see men? And how do men see women? It’s both ways.

I come from a highly traditional society, and much as there’s been… We have advocated extensively…I have gone to villages talk to traditional societies. one thing we have turned around was the perception that women were good for marriages. And the men would go to school. While the girls would stay at home. And so if men can invest in the education, equal education, both for their daughters and their men, that would help to change the perceptions of many things. As I said, we’ve worked with several communities that are gradually recognising the need to change, the need to be a behaviour change and their perception of the role and the vulnerability of women and young girls when decisions are taken. And if they can then they’ll be more sensitive to those issues and try to ensure that those issues are addressed when taking decisions that are intended to bring equality to men and women or to young girls and young boys.

Marie-Annick Moreau -

Excellent. Thank you so much. I think that we’ve covered everything Prudence. I don’t know if there’s any final thoughts you’d like to share or if you’re happy with leaving, leaving our interview there.

Prudence Galega - 23:11

I will just conclude with the quote that the successful implementation of the global biodiversity framework can never be guaranteed without equality, equity, in gender considerations.

Credits

This interview was conducted by me, Marie-Annick and developed in partnership with Emily Woodhouse, out of UCL’s Anthropology Department. Editing and mixing by Suzie McCarthy. Thank you to Laurence Avis for additional technical support.

If you’d like to learn more about why gender matters for biodiversity conservation, and how to support gender equality in conservation policy and practice, you can find a link to the policy brief we’ve written with our partners at the International Institute for Environment and Development and other amazing collaborators in our show notes. This podcast was funded by UCL Global Engagement Funds.

And if you want to follow what’s happening at COP15, take a look at the official website for the meeting at www.cbd.int/cop15, or follow UN Biodiversity on Twitter, #COP15. For all the action on gender equality, visit the Women’s Caucus page at women4[number four] biodiversity.org, or find them on twitter at women4biodiversity