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by Awa Sow and Stephanie Iyala
Contributors
Stephanie Iyala - Speaker
Dominic Arzadon - Guest
Sari Hellara Hernández - Guest
Henna Randhawa- Fact checker
Edited by Stephanie Iyala
Jingle “Niamey Nights”, Bamako Bae, Shutterstock, https://www.shutterstock.com/music/track-1221135-niamey-nights
Recording starts
Stephanie 0:26: Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of Diaspora Diaries. I'm Stephanie, and today I'm with two of my good friends from REPS, race, ethnicity and post colonial studies. So I'm here with my friends, Sari and Dom, and today we're going to be speaking about whether there is space for partying in the revolution. But before we do that, they're going to introduce themselves, and they're going to say where home is for them currently, because home is in flux and is constantly moving.
Sari, take it away
Sari 1:02: Hi. My name is Sari, my pronouns are they/them, and home is where my mom and my cats are. And right now that means Brussels,
Dom 1:12: Yes, and I'm Dom I use they or any pronouns, and I call both Hawaii and the Philippines home.
Sari 1:20: And we also have a silent guest.
Stephanie 1:22: We have a silent guest who will be fact checking this episode.
Henna 1:25: Hello, I'm Henna, home is the UK, yeah, London, Bristol!
Stephanie 1:32: And I will be. I don't like seeing host because I don't think I'm
Dom 1:39: Moderating
Sari 1:4: Mother
Dom 1:44: Mother.
Stephanie 1:47: I'm Stephanie. (she/her) and home, home right now is London, with my homies, with my friends, with my girls, and it is also Canada, because Alina lives there, even though I've never been but that's despite the point. But home is in flux guys, home is also the mind. Home can be geographical. She [Alina] is my home, but also my grandparents in Congo and my family's in Congo. So I will also say home is there and I miss the sun
Sari 2:16: Free Congo.
Stephanie 2:17: I brought you guys together because I wanted to speak about whether there is space for partying in the revolution. And the reason why I brought you guys specifically is because we like to shake ass together!
Dom 2:28: That we do!
Stephanie 2:30: We're all politically left. Any imposter speak up.
Sari 2:32: Why are you looking at Henna?
Henna 2:35: Not true
Stephanie 2:38: I would say that like having to be about the revolution, having to read and be very serious, and there's no space for partying pleasure, having to be politically centric. So my first question, what does the political revolution mean to you?
Dom 2:57: Go Sari and the revolution!
Sari 3:00: Yes, but let me explain that. Actually, I explained this to you. So it's after Prince and the revolution. So his band was called the revolution, and I called myself Sari and the revolution, like Prince and the revolution. I'm a big fan of Prince.
Stephanie 3:18: We know the tattoo
Sari 3:19: You know, the tattoo. You all saw my tits! Your question was about the political revolution?
Stephanie 3:28:I said political. Why did I do that? I think it's because a lot of the time when we think of revolution, it doesn't have a political undertone anymore.
Sari 3:39: How do you think they mean it?
Stephanie 3:40: Like mere things. Things are trivial, but I think we kind of lost sight of what the revolution is, okay. So that's how I was like, What does revolution mean to you? Because maybe it's like a personal thing.
Sari 3:50: I kind of okay. So I'll respond to that. What does revolution mean to me? Revolution means like, the dismantling of everything, um, unlearning certain very problematic patterns, and that means institutional, individual, collective, and it also means active listening. Yeah, I think that's what the revolution means to me.
Dom 4:15: Wow, You just took the words out of my mouth. I think.No, no. Like, actually, when you said unlearning, I was like, because I definitely think that it starts with the individual self, and I think that especially when it comes to, as you mentioned, a political revolution that cannot be achieved without collective actions. But of course, I think it starts with individual and like unlearning all the systems and the ways in which that we've been colonised, like in our minds to believe and to kind of act in the world. And so I think in light of the topic of this podcast is about, how do we queer (verb) ourselves to be able to unlearn and participate in ways that do contribute to a more collectivist mindset?
Sari 5:13: I would actually say that queer, for me, is a synonym of revolution, like queering is creating or making or being part of the revolution.
Dom 5:24: It's an essential tenant
Stephanie 5:25: For me, the revolution is is liberation or being free? I believe that comes with praxis by actually acting. And because I feel like a lot of people associate revolution and liberation with demonstration or boycotting, which I agree, but also feel like liberation and which is part of the revolution, also comes on how you conduct yourself with others, how you build communities, or how you maintain communities,
Sari 5:48: The fact that it has to be an active thing in not in the sense of, like, it doesn't have to be a physical thing. It has to be something that you think about quite often. And I mean, like the revolution and the unlearning and the dismantling, and it has to be something that you're working towards or working through, and not just something that you do at certain times and in specific locations. Yeah. And I think thinking about the revolution can take very different forms. We'll talk about that.
Stephanie 6:23: Yes, this is why I wanted to have this discussion, because I feel as though a lot of left social actors, I'm not going to @ anybody. However, a lot do tend to be just strictly focused on, like the theory.
Sari 6:39: I think that's very problematic because it's elitist, and it assumes that everybody can read, and everybody has, like access to these readings and to these to this academic sort of part of the revolution.
Dom 6:54: I think that this is also not to say that, like being well read, for example, is not coming from a place of privilege. And I think there there's a lot of privilege attached, and being able to read about the theory without, for example, like having kind of ever experienced what it would like to face, like compounded forms of like harm, not only to you, but also, like, in your community. And so I think there's always a place for both, but like, how do you then juggle the theory, if you don't also allow yourself, because it's quite heavy, it can definitely take a toll on you. And so I think that's why, how do you find a balance with that, and how do you then engage in ways that allow you to practice like different forms of care?
Sari 7:49: I think you're not a true revolutionary if you are shaming people of your own community and people that are still on their journey of learning, because it's an ongoing process. Exactly. I'm not only thinking about people that are unable to read, but those who are able to read but are unable to understand what is written. And we've talked about this in class, and I'm very vocal about this, a lot of us feel exhausted after reading for months, just things that are very dark and very even though they might not all be very explicit, they're still draining. And yes, we did choose to do this Masters!
Stephanie 8:32: Or maybe more collaborative, work So we can
Dom 8:36: Engage in it together and try to at least process it together. And so that's why, even in the session yesterday about using literature as as a method, I talked about how processing it well, what helps me process it is using the readings to apply in my own personal context and in my specific locality or places that I've been able to situate myself in, because I think that's the only way that, like, you'll be able to take what you what you read, and all the theory that you read, and apply it in your own work, in your own communities. So that's something that I always try to do. But like, that's not to say that it's not draining you know.
Sari 9:20: So what we do when we are drained is party!
Dom 9:25: Balance!
Stephanie 9:30: Even though we kind of already spoken about it. But is there a place for joy, celebration and partying in a revolution? I'm going to take away political now, because we kind of have a common consensus that it is political, or is it a distraction from the seriousness of the struggle?
Sari 9:47: Isn't there like a quote that says, "If I can't dance to it, it's not my revolution"? I think there's a quote like that, and I literally
Dom 9:53: There is definitely a quote for everything!
Stephanie 9:56: Henna is fact checking it,
Sari 9:59: "if I can't dance to it, it's not my revolution."
Stephanie 10:01: Drum roll.
Henna 10:04: Bear with!
Sari 10:06: Sorry
Henna 10:07: Yep, so it's commonly misattributed to Emma Goldman, who is a feminist icon apparently! An arco feminist icon, but it's actually by anarchist printer Jack Frager.
Sari 10:25: Oh no, we're not gonna claim it
Henna 10:26: In 1973
Sari 10:28: It's not a man
Henna 10:29: Which is paraphrased in Emma Goldman's autobiography, Living My Life.
Sari 10:36: Thank you. Well, I do stand by it though. I think, you know, there's, there must be joy in everything we do. If we can, it can't be used to distract us from other people's pain. But I think the role of active listening is important here, because if someone needs to feel joy, to be distracted by all the pain that they are experiencing. We should let them have that space to do that. Yeah, and if they but that doesn't mean that we can only that we should only focus on joy, then we should also give space, or allow space for sadness and grief and things like that.
Dom 11:24: Well, I'm always dancing to everything. I do think that it is not a distraction. Because I think there that the end goal, in a lot of ways, is for liberation. And so when you think about liberation and the act of being free, I think dancing offers an outlet, at least a glimpse, into the possibilities of what can and could be. And so I think it doesn't have to be dancing, but I think spaces of joy allow us to imagine and reimagine the possibilities of what the outcome could be from the revolution. So if we're not living in it now, then of course, we will experience burnout, because we won't allow ourselves to see beyond just the work that we're putting in.
Stephanie 12:10: And when you said spaces, it made me think of the importance of space, especially spaces for marginalized groups to be together. Cheap please! Let the tickets be cheap , why am I paying 30 pounds to shake arse! Like what's going on, but these are safe spaces where we're existing and living, You need to live as well!
Sari 12:34: Colonialists and imperialists are literally praying on your downfall! So don't, don't allow them! Don't give them the satisfaction! I think love, care, joy, partying is also a form of reclaiming your own agency when you're literally not allowed to do that because you're living in you know your your people are being genocided. Your people are being murdered. Even if you don't live in a genocide, you're being oppressed in a way or another. If I don't, if you don't care about me and I don't care about you. Now, who tells me that first of all, what is then we understand liberation is differently, because I think that liberation is all love and care and joy, and if you don't allow me to be joy, joyous now, then, who guarantees me that you will allow me to be joy, joyful like afterwards? Is it joyous or joyful?
Dom 13:24: Both works!
Stephanie 13:31: Dommy, I was going to ask you about your experience at Pussy Palace.
Dom 13:39: I felt so welcomed in that space, and I probably wouldn't have found out about it if my friend, Nana (shoutout to Nana) didn't tell me about it because she was literally raving about it. She's like, this is the best place I've been to, like it made me feel safe and like the music was good, like we were shaking ass!
Sari 14:04: Sorry, Can you tell me the history? Because I need to be filled.
Dom 14:08: Okay So basically. Well, I don't know much, but maybe you can offer I
Stephanie 14:13: I know that. I don't know when Pussy Palace was established, but I do know that it was a space for queer POC, yeah, specifically to have...
Dom 14:24: Yeah, black and Queer
Stephanie 14:23: Black and queer space, yeah, especially how you know how nightlife is in London or nightlife in the Metropole. Thank you Cesaire! But it can be alienating, especially if you go to Mayfair. They don't want they don't want women wearing braids. What do you mean? I can't party with braids, with your natural hair out. Yeah, it's, it's very policing, it's specifically policing for black bodies and queer bodies and
Dom 15:00: And so that, that's why Pxssy Palace was basically established to, have a space where, in light of like, various forms of exclusion, a space where we can create our own forms of inclusion. And so even when you buy a ticket, there will be different like prices based on positionality, yes,
Stephanie 15:27: Dommy go ahead
Dom 15:29: So of course, it'll be a lot cheaper if you're, like, black and POC and queer identifying. And then there's a section, if I remember correctly, where it's like, if you're like, like, a straight, a straight cis, like, white man, I haven't quite, I don't know, I don't remember if it's an ally, yeah, of course it's, it'll be a lot more expensive.
Sari 15:52: I have a question, is it identifying or identified as? Do they identify you?, or do you identify yourself?
Dom 15:59: No, it's self identification? Yeah, yeah, yeah, for me, at least, because that was the ... I went to the last one that they were hosting before doing a whole revamp. And I think I don't know what the revamp will look like, because I think it's in the works, but I think it was very special to experience!Experience that for myself, we had a fashion show. Yeah,
Stephanie 16:29: Also, you made it to the Instagram page!
Dom 16:33: I did!
Sari 16:35: So first of the face card
Dom 16:39: About that, I was at the bar in in the queue waiting to get a drink, and then I ... someone taps me on my shoulder. And I was like, Oh, someone with the camera. Oh, do you want your picture taken? And I was like, Oh, of course. So I had a little mini 10 second photo shoot, and I ended up making it onto the Instagram page.
Sari 17:10: So Henna just fact-checked it
Henna 17:15: @pxssypalace on Instagram. The U is an X, from February 26 you can find Dommy looking wonderful!
Dom 17:24: Thank you!
Henna 17:26: Picture number five.
Stephanie 17:28: By the time this episode comes out it will be picture number six!
Dom 17:33: That was nice. My friend Nana also messaged me and was like aww it's you , I wouldn't have I wouldn't have known, known, yeah,
Stephanie 17:48: Despite the growth in these spaces, for example, Jumbi in Peckham and Prince of Peckham, which is a black owned pub, however, with theeconomic decline and the rise of gentrification, these spaces don't feel like "our" spaces, And how do we navigate that in London, where these prices to these events guys!
Sari 18:14: Can I add something that is a little controversial, to be honest, but I stand by it. I think I'm for black and brown only spaces, by the way, there was this bar in Amsterdam, where I lived, that had nights and events that were for black and brown people, only! Not that you were going to be racialized at the door. If you identified and you self identified as a black or brown person, you could be let in, but the importance of putting up a message that this is a black and brown space only is to reclaim space. Is to be able to say, I have, again with the agency. I have the agency of defining this space for me and for my community and to... it's also about safety. It's because you want to, find a space where you can talk about certain things without being policed, or where you can dance, or you can... wear your your hair and wear your clothes however you want, without without feeling like you're making certain people uncomfortable. I don't know what you guys think about this?
Stephanie 19:27: Dommy?
Dom 19:30: No, I agree. I think a comment that I was going to make as well,that I think is important! For this conversation is how spaces that are for black and brown people can often feel like they're not spaces for queer people.
Stephanie 20:50: Yeah
Dom 20:11: And so I think we need to find a way to have these black and brown spaces be welcoming as well for queer, black and brown people, and so I think that is also, I know I'm going to bring intersectionality into it,
Stephanie 20:13: But it's important
Sari 20:15: Buzzword!
Stephanie 20:18: Every time Someone says a buzzword we go *makes a trumpet noise*
Henna 20:21: *makes a trumpet noise*
Stephanie 20:23: I was like metropole *makes a trumpet noise* Fanon *makes a trumpet noise*
Henna 20:34: "ding ding ding"... Get off the stage!
Sari 20:39: But also can we talk about, white queer people taking up space in black and brown spaces.
Dom 20:43: Yes, and that's what I'm saying. Like, it goes both ways. Like, I think in in queer spaces that like, I think it needs to be more welcoming of black and brown queer people and black and brown spaces. I think there also needs to be a way for queer black and brown folks to feel welcome in those same spaces.
Stephanie 21:09: I have a last question. Do you think there is ever a danger that the celebration could overshadow the urgency of the political message? For example, when we were looking at it just reminds me of a conversation we had in class about social conjunctures and when instances are happening in the world that we need to pay more attention to, should we not be focusing on simply partying and having a good time?
Sari 21:39: I think that it depends on the person that parties and how you party. Like is the partying to distract you? Distract you from other people's suffering, or is it distracting you from your own suffering? Do you know what I mean?
Henna 21:53: But isn't that still political? Do you mean, like partying, it's still political, even if it's not towards the revolution, but it's still even if you're doing it to distract like, you know, there's Trump party pictures that are going around of those like, American upper class teens.
Sari 22:10: Oh you see that as also political? I was thinking, yeah, then I was thinking about political as being like left, radical left. But yeah, if it's like radical, like, far right political, then yes, I think that...
Dom 22:24: I think it's open to interpretation in that sense of, like, I see both sides in terms of, like, of course, the political spectrum. I think that's why I said that partying is political, because the very act of partying is embodied. And I think anything that's embodied is political in itself, because I think personal is political at the end of the day. And I don't think that partying would detract or overshadow the revolution, because I think that ... we know what the end goal is.
Stephanie 22:57: Do we? Sorry, I'm being devil advocate because I was thinking about kind of what a lot of Marxist or combatant combatants who would argue that you're missing the real issue at hand. It's kind of like an either or situation, whereas, and like an individual situation. You're not fighting for, let's say oppressive regimes across the globe. You're not fighting against that. You're just partying. How is you partying? Helping that? What's the link? This is not my personal belief, by the way...
Sari 23:46: But I think. It's very much like I pick and choose what what oppression means, and I pick and choose what the end goal of the Revolution should be. And I think the revolution is very personal, generally, because you are a part of it, but you're also, I mean, for us, at least you're a part of it, but also you have your own idea of what liberation will look like and will feel like, and I don't think we should be policing each other. I think we are already being policed enough!
Dom 24:20: Two things can exist at once and also, like when you're inside the walls of a club, or, like, dance halls, for example, like, I think there is something to be said about a space being conducive to dancing and pleasure, because I think within those walls, you're able to be free and ... like using these spaces as a way to not only reclaim like your agency, but also like your sense of self and how you want to engage in community. Because, trust me, I think if you feel this way in that space, you're not the only one feeling that way. There are other people who are establishing a sense of community with you in that enclosed space, because that's where it feels safe.
Sari 25:21: It allows for radical imagination.
Dom 25:22: Yes, exactly! But we know that once we leave the walls of these enclosed spaces that there is work to be done, and the work will continue,
Stephanie 25:36: The work never stops!
Sari 25:37: Yeah, exactly. And honestly, I don't see myself doing this over and over and over and over and over again without pausing and taking care of myself like that, the it wouldn't be sustainable. It would be a one day revolution, and then the day after, we'll go back
Dom 25:55: It's literally how we come back, like burning out, yeah, we let the titties out we shake ass! That's our way of coming back to our body, coming back to ourselves
Stephanie 26:10: For one night and one night only! But so it reminded me of research that I was doing for my dissertation, but I was looking at sound system culture, especially in the time of Thatcher in the 1980s
Dom, Sari and Henna 26:27: Boo!
Stephanie 26:30: What working class Caribbean, British or Caribbean people, specifically, a lot of youth, A lot of men. No, boo, okay! Oh, okay! How they used sound system culture, not in political, in political with a big P(shoutout to Tareq), but political in the small p where they weren't going to these places or these halls, these houses, these basements of a church, being like, okay, we're fighting against the revolution like that wasn't... they were fighting the Revolution by 1) existing and 2) having a space to be free, let loose, listen to music. I would say it's inherently political. It may not look like a political thing, but it's political in the sense that they're fighting against a system that doesn't allow them to be free...
Dom 27:34: Exactly. And if you really think about it, the places where a lot of queerand racialised peoples are dancing in are not spaces that are for like normal everyday people, like these are basements, these are like warehouses. And so I think the very fact that that despite the infrastructure that a lot of queer and racialised peoples have been relegated to because of their social exclusion. We've been able to create spaces that feel home, like home, and feel very welcoming. And so I think that, in itself, is political as well, aside from the fact that our very existence in those spaces are also political.
Sari 28:26: Or maybe of communicating it in a different way. If you're on, if you don't have the words, and you don't have the space and you don't have the time to express your pain, then you can let it out in a different way through dance.
Dom 28:40: I think that's so beautiful, because sometimes we don't have to speak. No, I think there is so many. Things that can that come from being able to express yourself through your body without words, and I find that to be so beautiful.
Stephanie 28 59: So we're gonna end the podcast. Thanks.
Dom 29:04: That was a good place to end
Henna 29:06: Wrap it up! Sorry!
Stephanie 29:11 So before we end any last words.
Sari 29:13: I love, love.
Stephanie 29:16: We didn't really speak about love, but I think there'll be a future episode, because I think this all comes into the politics of love,
Dom 29:23: Yes, definitely, and care
Stephanie 29:27: And care and care for others,
Dom 29:28: I will say one last thing, live your life in color, whatever that means.
Stephanie 29:35: I was gonna say a last thing, but it's from a person who I do not respect… I can't see where you can hate from outside of the club.
Stephanie, Dom and Sari 29:43: You can't even get in!
Dom 29:46: Exactly!
Stephanie 29:47: And I'm not gonna say who said that? .... It was [BLEEP]. Ohhhhhhh
Sari 29:59: Reclaimed by Stephanie
Stephanie 30:00: WOW! Reclaiming [BLEEP], that's crazy
Sari 30:04: No, just that sentence
Stephanie 30:05: On our next episode... our special guest... But I would like to say thank you to Sari! Thank you Dom!
Dom 30:12: Thank you for having us
Stephanie 30:14: Thank you Henna for fact-checking in the back
Henna 30:18: Thank you
Stephanie 20:21: And thank you to IOEs empty rooms for allowing us to record in here. Thank you and the staff!
Dom 30:29 : cleaning up.
Sari 30:30: They were trying their best to not make too much noise.
Henna 30:32: They are actually really sweet!
Sari 30:34: There is no revolution without them!
Stephanie 30:35: And remember to like, share with your friends, comment if you malisten, if you'd want
Dom 30:34: Actively,
Stephanie 30:47: Actively and remember to twerk, shake some ass, go outside. Love one another.
Dom 30:51: Your body will thank you.
Sari 30:53: Get out of bed.
Stephanie 30:54: Get out of bed. But also remember the bigger picture. I don't know what, still figuring that out. What is the bigger picture?
Dom 31:03: We work through that one together!
Recording ends 31:14 minutes