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by Awa Sow
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Host: Awa Sow
Guest: Fuad Busoir
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Awa 00:24
Welcome, this is Diaspora Diaries, a podcast powered by transmission Roundhouse. I'm your host Awa and today I'm here with Fuad Busoir.
Fuad Busoir 00:32
Hello, hello, hello.
Awa 00:34
Do you want to introduce yourself?
Fuad Busoir 00:36
Yeah, hi, guys. My name is Fuad. I am many things, but for today, I am a poet. I used to call myself The Reluctant love poet, so I think it's quite appropriate to be on here today.
Awa 00:46
Do you consider yourself as part of a diaspora?
Fuad Busoir 00:49
Absolutely. I was born in Lagos, lived there till I 10 years old, before moving here in the middle of winter. Moving from Lagos to London in December. It's not for the week, but yeah, like, I haven't found myself thinking about home and where home is as I navigate my identity.
Awa 01:04
Would you say you consider yourself as part of a diasporic community in London? Or is that not really something you relate to?
Fuad Busoir 01:10
Hmm, I'm just like always in loads of different spaces, and I'm often in loads of different spaces with other black people, right? Typically, black people from the continent of Africa. However, I don't feel like our identity as members of diaspora is is as spoken as it is lived. You know? I mean, like a lot of like the art and things that we create do reference our identity as members of diaspora, but it's not necessarily something that we kind of like speak on and hold, you know, I mean, so like, I feel like it's, it's difficult to be like, I'm part of a diaspora community, because I guess that's not the name of the door, you know, I mean, but it's what we kind of like communicate with each other.
Awa 01:55
So how does diaspora take shape for you?
Fuad Busoir 01:59
Yeah, like, I said, like, it's, it's in my art. I have a lot, a lot of work around, around home, around my as I mentioned, I'm from, I'm from Nigeria, which is a very, very, very interesting place. I actually watched a movie a couple of days ago called "My Father's Shadow," which, if you guys have watched it, it's amazing, but it kind of explores the story of two young boys living in their father's shadow because something happens to their father, which I will not, you know, no spoilers, but it's set in Lagos, and they like, they have, like the whole movies looks like a whole day throughout Lagos, and like I found myself, like, remembering and missing so many aspects of it, aspects that cannot be recreated authentically. Where, where I live now, but I also live in Woolwich, which, if any of you are from London, it's known for Nigerians and so, like, I can't walk down, you know, the high street without seeing, you know, plantain and people speaking my language and things like that. So it's all around me, both in my art and in my lived experience.
Awa 03:05
What's your language?
Fuad Busoir 03:06
Yoruba? Yeah.
Awa 03:12
You introduce yourself as a love poet, yeah. What has your first encounter with love been?
Fuad Busoir 03:20
Good question, I think I have a poem. It's called the heart because my name Fuad means the heart. But I've had such a very, very, very interesting, interesting relationship with love. And I would say my first true encounter with love is of my siblings. I'm the oldest of four, and I have like, a 10 year age gap, 13 year age gap, and a 24 year age gap with my siblings and having, you know, lives, to watch them grow and learn and see how I can help shape the way they see the world in a positive manner, has been, I would say, my first real exercise in love, because the one after me came when I was 10 years old at the time. So that's kind of like, you know, finding consciousness and all that kind of stuff. So yeah, I would say for my my little little brothers and sister.
Awa 04:10
So how would you define that love?
Fuad Busoir 04:13
I just want so much for them, you know, not necessarily, like, oh, like they need to be billionaires and CEOs and all that kind of stuff. Like, I want them to experience life in any way they choose, and I want to be someone who can create the building blocks for them to achieve that. Me being someone who can facilitate and help that happen fills me with joy, and I work very, very hard to make sure that I can make that happen.
Awa 04:36
In like, how you explained it, it seemed like it's a lot of intention and like, putting in effort, yeah, just having wishes for people and having, like, this strong willingness for them to be good. So how would you define love, independently now, from your siblings?
Fuad Busoir 04:54
Yeah, I think obviously love of my siblings is a very specific component on love, love, but I think love. Love is central to everything, every single thing that we do as human beings. Like, for example, you think about, you know, a lot of people like when they love someone, obviously this typical love. But if I I really like my iPad, I think it's great. It's the best one I've ever bought. I love that iPad, even in spaces where you don't think love exists, like if you're sitting on a long journey or playing and you feel uncomfortable and you hate, you hate being that pain, yes, but you love the comfort that doesn't exist in that space. And I truly believe that, like every thing that we do is an expression of love or lack of it, you know? I mean, so, yeah, that's how I would define love. It's central to our being, and there is nothing I truly believe. There is nothing that we do that doesn't have love in it. But how do you define love?
Awa 05:52
That's a very interesting take. I have a follow up question before I respond, would you then understand love as like an essence or like a feeling, more than anything else.
Fuad Busoir 06:04
I think, I think love drives our feelings. It's the thing beneath that allows you to feel love and anger and sadness and joy and elation. It's the baseline of our humanity. And obviously, like, you know, you can talk about like animals and that kind of stuff, but that kind of stuff, but I think it's bigger than the feeling. It's the thing that drives the feeling then gives us something with which to decide how we feel about different spaces.
Awa 06:32
What is this base made of? Because when you talk about a base, like the base of our emotions, right? The thing that drives us, it doesn't say much about what it is. It only says something about what it does.
Fuad Busoir 06:44
Right? You're right. I think it's difficult to quantify, like your essence, which is why, like, I find it easier to look at how it drives the things that we do. I don't think I have the language to fully quantify the answers of it. But like, if you were to ask me, like, you know, what is love would you have? I'd be like, Why are you doing this podcast?
Awa 07:10
Why do you think that has anything to say about, like, love? Because that's a very specific question. What drives me in this very specific endeavor, but it doesn't say much about the rest of my life or the other things that I'm doing right.
Fuad Busoir 07:29
The reason why I use that as an example is because I think when you dig deep, like when you get to the bottom of it, it's because you love something. And I think for most people, when you dig down beneath what they do, you find love.
Awa 07:46
So do you think love is purpose?
Fuad Busoir 07:49
Yes, amongst other things, yes. I think love is purpose. Like, I think, like, you can ask me, like any single individual thing, and I believe that beneath that thing is love.
Awa 08:01
I remember in an earlier conversation, you told me about love as what feels like home, love as space. How would you incorporate that in, in your definition, in what you just explained?
Fuad Busoir 08:14
Yeah, so space, right? I love my room like I love my room. I love, I love the space our room. It kind of presents. I love being able to just know that there is someone that can go I can go home to. Like, the love is intrinsic in that definition, like it's the building block of it. You know, it's like...
Awa 08:35
Is it, though, is it is it the space?
Fuad Busoir 08:38
What else could it be?
Awa 08:39
Or is it your relationship to the space? Because you can feel at home in different places, and you could have had that room, but you could have also had another room. So is it the relationship you build up with that thing, with that person or that space? Or is it really the space in and of itself?
Fuad Busoir 09:03
I think there is no distinction. So I'm doing a module in uni called Open political ideas, and there's this guy who's doing his essay on this idea of dualism. My understanding of it is like dualists believe that there is a separation between subject and object, and I mean there is a separation between the person who does and the thing that is done based on that definition. I consider myself a non dualist, because I don't believe that there is a true separation between such an object. I think you asked me, Is it the space? Was it my relationship to the space? The space exists because of my relationship to it. The space exists because I put paintings up. The space exists because I bought a specific kind of bed and I bought sheets that I like. The space is intrinsic to what I've created. And in that process, my relationship is created to it. Because I like, oh, like, I remember this, this picture. And, you know, could it be another room? I'm literally moving house right now. Now, and I'm going to be setting up another room, and I'm going to love that room as well, because I'm going to spend that much time and effort into it. But all of that is love. There is no distinction between the two things. And if I was to then walk into a random room that I didn't build and I don't have a relationship with, I wouldn't love as much. But yeah, like, I think it's, it's the two things are so interwoven, in my opinion.
Awa 10:20
That's really interesting. I think that actually gestures towards what I would understand as love. You said, it's the effort you put in that room, how you decorated, the amount of care you put in, like setting up the space and making it feel like home, right? To me, this is exactly what love is about. Is how much intention you have towards, obviously, like the thing, the space, the person, but also the amount of care you're going to put in there, how much you're going to respect the space, how much you're going to respect the person, how well you all know the place or the person or the thing, and how much responsibility you take towards or on that space or that person. And this is actually something Bell Hooks talks about. Bell Hooks differentiates between Cathexis, which is more of an emotion and a feeling, and love, which is an action. And so when you start thinking of love as an action, and she says love as the world to nurture your own and another's spiritual growth, that's when you start seeing all the all the side things that can take shape in different ways, depending on whether it's a person, whether it's a space, whether it's an object, but it eventually comes back to whether you have intention, whether you put in care, whether you put in respect, knowledge and responsibility. And I would also add accountability, and I'll get back to that in a second. But essentially, Bell Hooks talks about how understanding love as action also prevents us from being in relationships where we experience abuse and still try and call it love, because if love is the action and not just the emotion, you couldn't say, I love you, but I don't care about you, I love you, but I don't take responsibility towards you. I love you, but I don't really know you right? And I think that's why I'm also incorporating accountability into this definition. And I think it, yeah, it kind of draws back to responsibility. To me, accountability is this thing where, like, you're not gonna do everything right. Sometimes you, for example, in like, relationships, you will hurt someone. But taking accountability is like taking the step back realizing your actions and wanting to kind of do something about it, and like really having the intention and putting in the effort to kind of like correct apologizing or just like, kind of wanting to change and spiritually grow. Right? To me, it's like this, realizing that we will never be 100% and never be perfect and never do everything right, but wanting to to grow spiritually and and in the context of the relationship.
Fuad Busoir 13:17
Yeah, I like that. Like love. Try it. I think is important. When you say you love someone or something, or you're in love with someone or something, it's like, yeah, how are you showing up and showing that love? I think it's really important. I'd say I definitely agree with that.
Awa 13:34
So would you say it matches your understanding of love?
Fuad Busoir 13:38
Yes and no, I think, I think it fits within my understanding of love and sense that like I think you know, if you say you love someone, you should make the effort to call them regularly or whatever, but I don't know if I would agree that you not taking the time to call them means you don't love them. I think it means you're loving them imperfectly. I think it means you're loving them in a way that is unfair to them and unfair to yourself, and you're not respecting that the love that you have for them and like that base feeling. And you need to do better. I need to set more accountability. But I wouldn't say that you not doing those things negates or means that you don't love them?
Awa 14:24
Well, I think there's many different things that come into play. I feel like first, I don't think we can just say that love is this one thing that expands like with all its rules and that it's applicable to everyone. So for example, I don't think everyone wants and needs to be called to feel loved and to experience love with you. So I think depending on, like, how that person relates to other people generally, and how how that person conducts their relationships, they might not necessarily need you to call them regularly. Yeah. Now, if this is. Something that they need, something that they want, something that they're looking forward in a relationship. I think in that context, it would be a matter of, do you actually want to grow with that person? And I think here we need to understand how we set boundaries and how we want to relate to one another, because how that other person wants to relate to relate to you is not necessarily how you want to relate to them. So it's like, do you agree on what kind of relationship you have, the extent of effort you're putting in one another, the extent of love that you're wanting to pour into one another, right? And I think when that is dysregulated, when it's unbalanced then, yeah, I think there's such thing as maybe someone loving you more than you're loving them, just because the amount of intention you're putting into one another is not is not the same. It's unbalanced.
Fuad Busoir 15:53
Yeah, I agree. I think what you're describing is where everyone should be. If you say you love someone that's everyone should be striving to get to like you should be striving to a point where you have balance and you have a love that that truly fulfills both parties exponentially. But I think life, you know, like life is just it's difficult, and people are imperfect, and I think love is inherently imperfect, because as human beings, we imperfect. You think love is perfect?
Awa 16:23
I don't think love is perfect, but I think we have a different definition of love being imperfect. I think that's why I added accountability, and why I think responsibility in love is so important. Because I think I ultimately think intention is not enough, and that's why I think it's important to me to differentiate between the emotion and the action, because the action might not follow up on the emotion, and you might have the emotion and set the intention, but not follow through with your actions. And then, to me, it's not love, and it's okay that it's not love, but I think sometimes we have to come to terms with the fact that we don't necessarily love in places where we would want to love, or we don't love to the extent that we would want to love, or we don't love to the extent that the other person would want us to love, you know.
Fuad Busoir 17:10
So if people don't match their intention with action, like for other people, they don't love that person.
Awa 17:19
I think if there's a commitment to that other person and then you don't follow through with the actions, yeah, I don't think you're loving. Now, if you do have intentions, but these intentions are just not equivalent to what the other person wants from you, then I don't think it's necessarily not love. I think it's just unalignment. I think it's just you're not loving them to the extent that they want to be loved, and that's fair. And I think we just have to come to terms with the fact that it happens, it happens quite often, and you just have to find people that match your energy, you know, and that match your your needs. And I do think that like you wanting to do it and putting in the effort, it's not going to be perfect. It will never be perfect, but I think it's, it's a matter of how much you're willing and actively putting in effort to reach that goal.
Fuad Busoir 18:16
I think the conversation that we're having at the moment is very along the lines of romantic love. Let me land, let me land, let me land. I want to ask. When it comes to familial love like that is, I think it's a realm of love where I think a lot of the time the intention is there. Like I think most mothers love their children, but I don't necessarily think most mothers do the things, especially when the child is old enough to quote, unquote, care for themselves. I don't think they necessarily do the things that match that that child's conception of like this person is intentionally caring and loving for me, but I wouldn't say that doesn't mean they don't love them. What do you think?
Awa 19:04
What I said I thought of it in terms of relationships generally. So that includes, like familial relationships, but also friendships outside of romantic relationships. And then what you said is actually like something Bell Hooks talks about in the book all about love that I quoted earlier as well, Bell Hooks actually emphasizes that the context of the family is one of the contexts where it's most difficult for us to realize and come to terms with the fact that there might not be as much love as we think there is, because we can't come to terms with the fact That love is an action and not a feeling. So I do think that a lot of our parents want to love us, but they don't love us. They affect us.
Fuad Busoir 19:50
I think it also really depends on, like, your definition of care, like, if I'm a kid growing up, right and like my father. I never see him, because it was our work, because he has to work, like, put food on the table and put clothes on our backs. But I never see him, and I feel like he doesn't love me, because, you know he, like, I didn't know that man, but he spends most of his waking hours caring in a different way compared to my conceptualization. Would that be cathetic, or will that be love? In your kind of like lens?
Awa 20:24
in the example you've given, that father puts in a lot of effort to care for them, like financially offer them, like, financial stability, food, shelter, all of the things that, like we need to survive right now. What comes into play here is like the child's feelings, right? Maybe they want their dad to be a bit more present. Maybe they want to establish a relationship, and the dad might not have the means to do that, right? The time, as you said, I think you're hearing the other person out and trying to adjust as much as you can. Is what caring and knowing someone looks like. The dad might not be able to take, like, three days off a week to spend time with their children, but they can hear them out on what the child needs and how they can adjust their lifestyle or way of communicating, really, to kind of make the space, make the relationship feel more comfortable, you know? And I think in the context of the diaspora, this happens very often, right? We've got very busy parents, and we don't really have the opportunity to build up that relationship. And I think the generational gap is also much more present when we have not been raised in the same country in the same like socio political context, right? So I think, I think in these contexts, it's really difficult for us to actually, to actually naturally meet our respective needs. But I think that's why we need to communicate. And I think communicating is what facilitates the rest. Essentially, like you have to learn to love somebody, I think, and I think the only way to do that, especially in the context of relationships with your parents, is to communicate your needs and for them to communicate their needs as well. Because I think this is something that we tend to forget, that they also have needs, and that they're not just parents, they're also humans. And sometimes we just, we just have to find compromises.
Fuad Busoir 22:33
Can you love someone that you've never met?
Awa 22:37
I don't think so. To me, that comes back to the point on knowledge, I think you can't love anybody you don't know. Do you mean, like, physically met?
Fuad Busoir 22:47
No.
Awa 22:48
Tell me a bit more about your question.
Fuad Busoir 22:50
Okay, cool, all right, so my father, right? My father was never in my life, and I grew up never meeting him. I mean, he met me, but I never met him. I was too young, so remember, but I grew up having this, this feeling of, there's this, this person, this human being out there. And I have so much within me that I feel for them, but I don't know them, and I've never met them, and I believe that upon meeting him like, if I ever did, which I can't, but if I did ever meet him like, I think those, all of those feelings would pour out and erupt, because all of those feelings have been being within me, there is no action to take, you know, to make it love, according to hooks, but to me, that love is intrinsic in my being. That's half of my DNA. That's half of who I am, at least on the on the biological level, in to me, that deeply, deeply drives my level of feeling towards that person. I never met him. I didn't know him.
Awa 23:54
But I think that, again, is the difference between the feeling and the action. I do think you can have feelings towards someone that you have never met, and I think we often have very strong feelings towards people we haven't met. The typical example in romantic relationships is when we say we fell for potential, it's like, it's like, yeah, I do think that we we build up images of people, and I think in the context of your family, in the context of your dad, yes, I do think that you build up this, this image of that person in your head, and that triggers a lot of feelings, especially when you're biologically related to that person. But I think that's Cathexis. I think that's exactly what Cathexis is about. I don't think that's what love is about, though.
Fuad Busoir 24:41
That's fair.
Awa 24:42
Do you think love is political? Do you think that it belongs to the public sphere?
Fuad Busoir 24:53
I think love... I think love is everything. I think it's both public and private. And if we look at the most dramatic examples of political and public love, let's look at Martin Luther King's I Have a Dream speech. He was talking about the love of his children and the world that his children couldn't grow up in. But it's a deeply political thing for so many people and and it's had such a great impact on so many people. So I think you can't look at that and say what he's saying isn't political, because it's directly in Congress with the nature of society at the time, and, you know, relations between black and white people. But I also think you can't look at it and say that it's not love, like he spells out for you, like, I'm building this for my children and I'm building this for my my daughters. So I think love is definitely both it's political and apolitical when it wants to be, and it's both public and private.
Awa 25:52
I think you have a perfect example of that in your personal life, which is the organisation "For Black Boys."
Fuad Busoir 26:00
Yeah.
Awa 26:00
Can you tell us a bit about that?
Fuad Busoir 26:03
Yeah, For Black Boys is my baby. So you're right. It's an organization I set up a couple of years ago. And the idea is to create space, to create community, to create belonging for every kind of black man, which is a big thing, but in practice, so far, it has meant throwing events for at the moment, young men at university age from things from like chess tournaments to DJ classes to teaching guys how to cut their own hair, how to cook, to watching football together, taking people to see plays. Yeah, it's been one of my acts of love. And I know you're gonna ask me, like, what drove me to set up For Black Boys? And I said that in the beginning, I said it because, especially my little brothers, I love them so much, and I want to change the world for them, and I want to build a world where they can grow at their own pace and not feel like they have to be anything that they don't want to be. They can create life how they want to and For Black Boys is one of my conceptions of that. You know, I want to change the world for black men everywhere, and as a result, my little brothers get to benefit from that, as do, hopefully, many, many, many young black men across the flipping world. But yeah.
Awa 27:19
How would you define love in the context of For Black Boys?
Fuad Busoir 27:25
It's the care that I'm taking to build this space and the effort, and, you know, the action, as you say, to do this thing so intentionally and so intently, on like, a personal level. And that's been a two year long journey so far, and it's, I believe it's going to be a lifelong journey. I want to do this for as long as I live. So I am showing love every single day by spending so much time and effort to build this space for black men. But on a general level, I guess we are providing the things that these young men may not have had the pleasure of experiencing as they've grown up. You know, we have an event called the barber shop, which I mentioned earlier, which is the whole idea is that we get student barbers to teach guys how to cut hair, how to shave, how to maintain themselves on a physical level. I was never taught that when I was growing up, but we are turning around and giving it to these young men who may not have had that. So, yeah, like, like, the things that we do are intrinsically about love, you know about enriching their lives. And I think, yeah, love is deeply, deeply, kind of like woven into that process.
Awa 28:28
Why is it particularly important for black boys?
Fuad Busoir 28:32
I think it's important for all men. And I get asked all the time, like, you know, why is it just black men? And the answer to that question about why, why not all men, and why there's black men is because my lens through which I see the world is through the lens of a black man. That is a lens, and that is the context which I understand. So that is the context which I will create from. We are taught so many things about ourselves by the world around us, and you grow up, and you realize at some point, if you have that presence of mind and of self, you realize at some point that you are this caricature of a person, and you carry yourself in that image. And I want to challenge these young men to see more for themselves, to see that I go like this is why I really want, you know, this is why I really want to be, and to give them the luxury to choose you know, rather than you know, realize that you're just a caricature of a person.
Awa 29:27
And I think this is a big part of the project of black feminism, right, emphasizing how emotion is structural, it's historical, it's political. I was reading about this concept of "Affective Politics" that I was not too familiar with. It essentially refers to how emotions and feelings affect political lives, and how our emotions and feelings are affected by political life as well. It really resonates with what you said about For Black Boys, that these emotions, these feelings are public, they're not private. And I think especially in the context of black people, generally in the UK, there's kind of these stereotypes are like, forced onto us, and then we don't really know to differentiate between, like, what we are and what we have been told we were. That's why I think these spaces are so important. And I think there's definitely patriarchal oppression within the black community, for sure, but I think white feminism led us to dismiss the oppression that was very specific to black boys, very specific to black men. And so I think that's why I feel like this, this emphasis on love politics that's part of black feminism is just so important to stress and to advocate for, because these love politics are the spaces we build to heal and to learn to relate to one another in in a healthier capacity and in a in a capacity that allows us to learn to be ourselves and create ourselves as well. I would say,
Fuad Busoir 31:06
Yeah, I agree. I think I've done a lot of like in my education. I've got a lot of like, study of black masculinity and just blackness in general. And I remember I did an essay which is about knife crime. Is when, like, knife crime in London was crazy, like there was like a like, a month where London had more murders than New York. And I just thought I was a crazy stat, right? And I did an essay exploring the effects of like poverty and social exclusion on like people who then go on to commit crimes and be victims of crime. And I ended up speaking to a police officer. I spoke to a member of the London Assembly, which are, like, people that like advise and like critique the work of the mayor. And I spoke to a charity worker as well. And it's really interesting, as I'm kind of going essentially up the food chain in terms of like interactions with these people. So the charity worker be on the bottom, people who actually, day to day, interact with young men who have been both victims and perpetrators of crime, all the way up onto the London Assembly member who's like, they see stats, and they see numbers, like, the way they interact with these very political issues, you know, poverty, social exclusion as a result of, you know, your your mother or your father, your parents have moved to this country at a certain age, and they have to make something for themselves. So they're working on every day, right? And then, like, I talk about one of my poems, like, and then like, you you see your family struggling, and you're like, oh, you know, like, I see these guys in the park, and like, you know, like, time to hold something. And like, I make more money than I know that my mom earns in a week. And you're like, Oh my gosh. Like, I have a way to help my mom, to care for them, to love my mom. And then before you know it, you kind of get pushed up and up and up this pyramid to the point where you're very young age, where you're doing crazy things and you're like, who am I and what is going on? And when you speak to the people in power about this, their answer to solve this problem is more policing. It's force. And like a lot of the work that I do is like just ultimately trying to help people to understand that we are dealing with human beings. We're dealing with boys, right? Boys who are very young age or doing something that is deeply related to, you know, like, I want my mother to be happy. I don't want to be a burden on her this week, right? So I'm going to do this one thing, which I'm a child. I believe this thing is innocent, whatever, and I don't have the context of the biggest structure that I'm entering. And, yeah, like, before you know it like you're doing crazy stuff. And I want to humanize these people and educate them, which is not to be like, oh, you know, give a pass to guys who do crazy stuff. It's like, okay, can we get in there early and help this young man understand? Like, you know, you did this thing now and seven years from now, this is what your life will look like, and changing their futures in that way as well. I think it's important.
Awa 34:01
What do you think of the concept of black love?
Fuad Busoir 34:04
When I think about black love, I think about American movies and TV shows, literally, like, like, I think about, you know, things like Love and Basketball and like, there's a movie that I love. It's called, if Beale Street Could Talk, if you guys haven't watched that movie, watch that movie. It's, it's the most beautiful conception of black love and how political it is. And you know how it can be drawn across racial lines. And, yeah, like, I think you you'd be hard pressed to watch a movie or teach or read a book about black Love Where You know, the issue of politics isn't front and center and how, you know, as human beings, we can't simply exist and love each other and just just be normal. You know, It all affects us. But it's interesting, though, I haven't had as much of a strong conception of black love from a British lens. Yeah, I just don't think. You know, it says so strong over here.
Awa 35:02
Okay, I don't know. I think I've seen it a lot on social media like this debate whether it is problematic. Because I've engaged with these debates so much, and I've spoken about it a lot with my friends. I felt like some people would not get how important that is. And I think I've always kind of seen it as like another manifestation of love politics generally, in the sense that, to me, black love has always been this thing where, like you kind of claim things that you've been told were not good. Maybe it's also my relationship to Senegal and being a mixed child, in the sense that I feel like there was this discourse back then, at least, that, like, it was a good thing that my dad married a white woman, and I was kind of like stepping up the social hierarchy. And I've always been very frustrated with that, because to me, it was like, no, but like, it's cooler for me to be Senegalese than it is to be German. Actually, I don't want people to dismiss that part of my identity, because I think, like, the automatic thing people would be proud of or excited for in regards to me, was me being German and me speaking German. And I was like, no, I actually want to speak Wolof. I want to be fluent in Wolof. I want to go back to Senegal. I don't really want to go back to Germany. And it's always been this thing that, like, I was trying to counter that other narrative that was like, it's good to have like a "white side" in quotation marks. And I think to me, black love has always been that, like kind of being like, well, no, we actually, we actually like our culture. No, we actually like our people. And no, we're not gonna, we're not gonna hate each other within our community just because it serves your interests.
Fuad Busoir 36:42
I completely agree. I think, I think Black Love is super important, and especially, like you said, like when people express non black love as something that is better, it's like, what does that mean? So yeah, I completely agree with your conception of that.
Awa 37:01
Thank you so much for listening. Thanks for coming in Fuad
Fuad Busoir 37:05
No problem.
Awa 37:05
If you have any questions, if you have any comments or thoughts on the discussion we've had, please let us know. This was Diaspora Diaries, a podcast powered by Transmission Roundhouse.
Recording ends 37:08 minutes