Transcript: ECF Staffroom S04E03

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Elaine Long 
Welcome to the ECF Staffroom. I'm Elaine Long.

Mark Quinn
And I am Mark Quinn.

Elaine Long 
We are programme leaders for the UCL Early Career Teacher Development Programme. Why are we in the staffroom? We are here because this is where the best professional learning conversations always take place. This is where problems can be aired bluntly and where solutions can be explored.

Mark Quinn
Over the course of this series, we will hear the voices of different colleagues as they come in the ECF Staffroom. We will hear from early career teachers themselves and from the mentors and induction tutors who support them. We will talk about all things ECF, the challenges and the joys. So, why don't you enjoy a coffee with us, perhaps even grab a biscuit and sit down to half an hour of ECF Staffroom chat.

Mark Quinn
Welcome to the ECF Staffroom. Emily. Emily. Emily. Taylor. Emily, this is our staffroom. So, we invite you to come in and to take a seat. There's a nice sofa over there. My job is to get you a biscuit and to fix you a drink. So, what can I get you?

Emily Taylor
Yeah, I don't really drink hot drinks, to be honest. So, I'm a water girl. I like drinking my water. Keeps me hydrated all day. I’ll have a Hobnob, that's probably my favourite biscuit.

Mark Quinn
Water and a hobnob. So yeah, you're abstemious on the one hand, but then you kind of pig out on a biscuit. I happen to know Hobnobs are one of our, most common choices. So, we have some hobnobs in the back of the cupboard, so we can definitely find you one of those, and I'll clean out the glass and give you a nice, tall, cool glass of water as well.

Emily Taylor
Thank you.

Elaine Long
That's a good advertisement for, wellbeing, Emily. You're obviously a really good role model there, I think. Maybe you have something a little stronger to drink on a Friday night, I don't know. Please, can you introduce yourself for our listeners and briefly describe your role and what parts of it you enjoy the most?

Emily Taylor
I'm a year two ECT. I've been at the same school since I started my ECT years, and I'm a teacher of Geography and I'm a form tutor and we also teach that aspects of RE as well. So, the bit that I probably enjoy most about, I've already mentioned this to loads of people when I speak, but it's the form tutor role, I think, I'm a very pastoral person, and when I went into teaching, it was all about that side of teaching that really sparked my interest in it.

Elaine Long
And you've got a Year 7 tutor group, don’t you Emily, is that right?

Emily Taylor
I started Year 7 last year but moving to Year 8 now.

Elaine Long
What do you enjoy most about your Year 8 tutor group?

Emily Taylor
I think it's, for me, I think it's the consistency of seeing the same people at the same time every morning. I have certain pupils that I have the same chat with every morning. That might seem boring, but it's just the routine of having that and they expect to have the same conversation with me.

In my tutor group, I think maybe because it's my first ever to a group, I've invested so much time into them that I know every single one individually, and I know their interests individually. I know their backgrounds. I spoke to all the parents, and I almost feel closer to those students than I do any others just because of how our relationship is based on how much I do see them. So, I like that part of it.

Mark Quinn
Do you teach them as well?

Emily Taylor
Yes, I teach most of them. Well, last year I've taught all of them because I taught a lot of Year 7 last year. This year I'll teach a few. But I teach my form RE. So, we do RE lessons in form, we have drop down days where we might spend the day together doing RE. So, that's nice as well.

Elaine Long
I'm sure they love having you as well as a tutor.

Emily Taylor
Yeah, I absolutely, I think that is my main thing that I like about teaching. It's nice at break time when they come up to your room and tell you something that's happened that morning or “Can you help me with this? I've not done my homework last minute. Can you help me with it? That that sort of thing. It's nice to know that when they need something, they thought of me to come to them and find. I think that's what I've enjoyed about it.

Mark Quinn
And did that surprise you? Did you know that was what you were going to get out of your first year in a bit of teaching order? Has that come to you as a bit of a surprise?

Emily Taylor
I think it's come to me as a bit of a surprise because on teacher training, you obviously learn a little bit about being a form teacher, but it's mainly about the lessons and your subject. But for me, starting, I didn't realise how much of a role the form teacher did actually have until I became one. So, before I didn't really think about it to be honest, 

I thought, I know I'm going to be a form teacher. I probably have to do the register in the morning, do a few bits with them, but I never really thought into it at all. But I think I found out within 2 or 3 months of been there I was like, no, that's the bit I've actually, you get to grips with it a lot quicker than you do any of the rest of it, because you don't meet classes as often or see them as often.

So, for me, that was the thing I felt more confident with at the start my ECT years, because they were my consistent class, that I had, the consistent kids I had. So, I got used to them a lot quicker than I did any other aspect of the school or the staff. I spoke to my form a lot more.

Mark Quinn
Yeah. So, I'm going to ask you a bit about that, actually, about how you made your starts at, at your school. We met. I should tell the listeners that, Elaine and Emily and I met a few weeks ago to talk about this chat and what we might talk about. And you told us then, Emily, that you were really, really keen to talk to us about your mentor, your mentor, called Rachel. 

And we obviously know that, so much of, the ECF programme rests upon the talent and the dedication of our mentors. We're really proud of them. We know that, your mentor will help, will be the person who will be above everyone else, will help you settle into your school and not just that, but with obviously the pedagogical content knowledge you need to teach your subject. And I guess also with supporting your wellbeing as an ECT at the beginning. So, we're going to we're going to take each of those areas to talk about, this afternoon. 

So, if you can cast your mind back to when you first met your mentor, Emily, what practical things did Rachel do to make sure you could make a good start in your school?

Emily Taylor
I think this is an interesting story of how I met Rachel. So, before I had my interview in the February when I was still teacher training and my mentor wasn't involved in the process of my interview, but she was really keen to meet me. So, on the last week of well, school before summer, where I'm not even started my role yet, she invited me to go on a school trip with them, so I didn't work at the school yet, but she was like, come on the school trip and we can like get to know each other and you can meet some of the kids.

And I think even then, her doing that, I think said a lot about what she was setting me up for, basically. So, she was like really enthusiastic. She brought me in that day that I really wanted to meet. Yeah. And we're going to do this, this and this this year. Is there anything you're worried about? Anything you want to know before September? And I think obviously it's not a requirement to have your mentor do that before you even start. But knowing that I am that person, and I even knew how nice she was and how willing she was to help before that first day that I started, it really did make a massive difference and even things in the holidays. So she'd be like, if there's any questions at all, you can just you can just text me. She gave me her number. So, I don't think you're annoying me in the summer. If you need to know anything to prepare yourself, then email me on, text me.

Mark Quinn
Did you have questions? Were there things you did need to know about in order to make a good start?

Emily Taylor
I think for me, the main things that I was concerned about is, we had the inset day, but then it was straight into teaching. For me, obviously you don't have access to the resources, for my confidence, I just wanted to have the resources in front of me to have a look through first. And she was able to send me the resources, but also tell me how she taught it all, what they learnt prior to this last year and the context she gave me did really help my confidence that first week. 

Instead of walking in and just thinking, oh my God, I don't know what's going off, she gave me the reassurance for everything that I needed.

Mark Quinn
Yeah, that’s that that's daunting, isn't it.

Emily Taylor
100%. I mean, you know, your subject but to teach a lesson, maybe a case study in geography or a country you've never taught before. It's quite a daunting thing and you don't want the kids to think you don't know what you’re doing. So, she gave me that reassurance, she gave me everything I needed, basically. And it was just nice to have a number.

I didn't ask millions of questions, but it was just nice to have the option to text I really did need to text.

Elaine Long
It's interesting, isn't it, because, you know, when you're starting out in teaching that there is, like you say, the whole subject knowledge aspect and the whole practical aspect of will  I know what I'm doing, but what I hear from what you're saying is that emotional support is there. And I think to build up a relationship in advance and to know that you've got that trusting colleague there to support you, is really worth its weight in gold, really before you start, because it's a nerve wracking business, isn't there? But it sounds like your mentor did a really good job of supporting you emotionally as well as practically and, professionally.

Emily Taylor
I think with Rachel, my mentor, we've spoke about this lots, even though she's helped me so much. She said one of the most rewarding role she's done in school is be my mentor. And I think it's because she’s accessed all the resources as well as mean. Obviously, she's been a teacher for 20 plus years, and she said sometimes it's good to refresh her knowledge as well, and even just have me as someone refreshing who's come into teaching rather than being surrounded by the same people all the time.

She said she liked that aspect of it and having my opinion, which might be different to hers, but we can discuss it and our mentor meetings, it is literally like you described at the start, we get a drink, we get some biscuits, and we just sit and chat and it's informal. And I like that aspect of a mentor because whenever it might be SLT you speak to, it's more of a formal chat and with her, I can even talk about if something happened at home and I'm not feeling great. It's not just school based, and I think that's so important in a mentor.

Elaine Long
I think that's important too. And it's nice that you've got that, that onside, trusting relationship that we talk about on the programme. And that's such a great example of it. And it sounds, you know, it sounds quite a small thing when you say, you know, if I've got a problem going on in my life, I can talk about it. But that is a really important thing because we're not just teachers, we're people. And I think you're right. I think it is important to be able to bring your whole self, to those mental meetings.

On the subject of the professional side of things, we know you've got a year 11 Geography brief. I mean, you're really passionate about teaching Geography, and you picked up that group in year ten last year, which is hard to pick up a group halfway into their GCSE because you've got to get them through their last year and you're seeing some of their parents and parents evening tonight as well. We know, you were Geography subject specialist, but there's a lot of knowledge about Geography, that you have to prepare for those students for their GCSE. So how did you get your head around it and can you remember any advice that Rachel gave that helped you?

Emily Taylor
Yes. So, I think that was one of the most daunting things, the GCSE classes. Not only because they're a little bit older, but because of the pressure of it, is actually a qualification that they're trying to get. So, I think the first thing that Rachel suggested was that I needed to do the planning for the GCSE, and we all share planning.

So, one person does Year 7, 8 and 9, and that is really helpful. But she said if you plan it, then you've got the thought process while you're doing it. This needs to, it needs to be taught. Rather than me picking up a PowerPoint and just thinking, oh, I'll just teach from there, she said, the thought process is that if you're planning it so we sat and planned it together, and she told me how we important it was to use a specification which might seem obvious, but to be honest, I never thought about picking it up be honest.

I knew what was on the exam, but I didn't know the little strands of different things for different topics. And it really highlighted to me, oh, actually, I didn't know that I had to teach that bit because I've never seen it come upon the exam, but you still have to teach it. So that really did help, the lesson planning and the specification. But also, currently we've got period six, which is like revision for you 11 and me and Rachel put our classes together and she helps me do it. So, then I can bounce off her and she can bounce off me. So, what she always says to the kids, because we like speaking to the kids about it.

She says, I've got the knowledge of a new ECT who's got all this knowledge fresh in my mind from university and quite enthusiastic, but I haven't necessarily got the experience of exam technique at all. I mean, I could add to an exam, but teaching that is a different skill, isn't it? So, Rachel offered, well, you can do the knowledge part and then you can learn off me teach in the exam technique part. It's worked so well so far. 

So, I'll do the introduction bit and then Rachel will model how to answer it in the exam. I've learned a lot from watching her do that. But that opportunity has also helped the kids but me because realistically, if she was in another classroom doing her class, I would never hear what she's saying to them. So, it's really helpful.

Elaine Long
That sounds really interesting. And I was particularly interested to hear that your mentor wanted you, to actually get involved in the planning, and have that process modelled. to understand the thought process behind planning, because there's quite a big debate for new teachers at the moment, and some people put forward the idea that new teachers shouldn't do any planning at all. They should just get the lesson plans and that will help with their wellbeing. Some people put forward the idea that actually teachers do need to be involved in lesson planning. And I think your mentor really got the happy medium right there in the sense that you weren't just left to it, you weren't just sent away, you know, get on with it and sat in a room sort of crumbling with the anxiety of having to plan something from scratch, but you did it side by side with her. 

I think that's a great example of the way that she broke that down and modelled it with you. So, you understood the process behind it. And like you said, that was important to understand how you plan to a set of, examination criteria because, you know, it's high stakes. You know, you want to make sure that your Year 11’s have the best shot they can in this exam. 

And then the team-teaching sounds fascinating as well. So, I suppose you're looking at both your classes fit in one room, and you can pull them together like that. But you know, you must have learned an awful lot that way, I think. 

Emily Taylor
100%. and like I said, it's not only helping me, but it's helping them. And I would never want to take away from those Year 11s. I know, I'm good at what I'm doing and I'm still developing, but it's true, I haven't got the experience of the exam, so realistically I'd be taking it away from them by not letting her do that aspect of it.

Whereas now, when I've got a new Year 10 class this year, because I planned the resources last year with Rachel, I'm so much more confident at teaching it because I know what they need to know. The first year-round, me and Rachel has planned this, I need to get my head around it. So you just learn on top of each year, don’t you. So, you practice and practice and do it again and again and we just, I like Rachel in the sense that she also identifies how many strengths I've got as well. It's not that I know everything, I'm going to tell you what it is, she tells me so much like you're really good at this, I'm good at this, let's put it together. 

And as an ECT, you can sometimes feel a bit out your depth when you're surrounded by experienced teachers. But she doesn't make me feel like that at all. She really like, identifies what I'm good at, and I like that. I do really like that.

Elaine Long
It sounds that she really recognises all the strengths that that you bring to the school as well, with all your recent experience. So, it's more of a knowledge exchange really in the class that you're playing to all your strengths and being honest with the pupils about that, that sounds really nice. Do you think, you know, what do you think you would have been like if you didn't have a subject specific mentor like Rachel?

Emily Taylor
Personally, I don't even think it's just about the subject in terms of the subject specific mentor. But I just don't think I would have developed to the teacher in general, because Rachel's next door to me as well. So, and the placement of classrooms helps majorly, even in terms of behaviour. If I send someone out, I know Rachel will be on it and she'll be speaking to them and we do it vice versa.

But if I was to have a mentor that wasn't in my subject, it wasn't in my area of school. I wouldn't get that aspect of it either. So, she's not only help me with the subject specific things, but behaviour. In form she will sometimes pop in because obviously when she has extra role, she doesn't have a form on certain days, so I think it, I think is so important and I know it can't be helped in some situations, but just having her next door is so useful and she wouldn’t be next door if she wasn't in my subject.

Mark Quinn
What I was hearing as you were talking, Emily was just how it reminded me, really, just of how complicated and difficult this job is. because, you know, you went through that, you would have gone through your whole year in your initial teacher education year, and you've also had, of course, your first year of ECF, your ECT year and you're still obviously still, you know, learning this thing and, and it's still difficult, isn't it? And you know, you're still doing some things for the first time. You've got your Year 11s now for the first time after you taught them last year, but you're taking them through to the end of their exams for the first time.

And there's lots of things that, there's lots of first time experiences that ECTs have, you know, the first one, two or even three years of their career. And it reminds me, because sometimes we get people telling us that the ECF programme is just repeating things that people already know. Well, there might be some of that of course, we hope there is some of that. But actually there's just so much novelty, there's so much, unexpected stuff that happens in a school day. There's always things to learn, don't you think?

Emily Taylor
Yeah, 100%. And it's like you said, with first time things, it can always be scary. And you might ask someone about their experience of something that happened to for the first time, but it's never going to be the same as your own experience. I mean, there's quite a lot of staff members that I've obviously been here since I've been here, but then left. And if you ask them for their opinion on something, it might be that completely different to someone who stayed here. 

So, I think it's difficult because you do base your opinion on what's going to happen after what someone else has said. But what I've learned over time is you've just got to got to experience it in your own way, and it's not going to be the same for everyone. And some things might be more difficult and some things might be easier. But the first time things are really, really hard or it can be really rewarding, but they always do get better over time if you want it to get better.

Mark Quinn
So, if you think about it, I mean, there are highs, there are lows in this job. And if you think about some of the tough times you must have experienced over the last year and a bit, what do you do yourself actually? How do you look after your well-being? What are the routines like in your school or how do you interact with your mentor in such ways that you know your wellbeing is always being looked after?

Emily Taylor
I think with wellbeing there's two things that I've done. So, one big thing that I've done since the start, what everyone has told me to do is don't have dinner on your own. I know it sounds so ridiculous, but it's so easy to just sit in your classroom and just have your dinner on your own to be honest, because you feel rushed off your feet and you just want to eat quickly and then set up.

But my department, so that's history and geography. We made such a pact. Everyone sits and eats their dinner together. We just talk about random stuff, like TV or whatever and honestly, it just takes you your mind away for half an hour and it might seem so minimal, like, oh, well, it's only dinner, but it's halfway through the day, you need that breather and if you don't sit with other people, you don't ever allow yourself to have that breather. So that's one thing that I do. 

And then the other thing is I just try to do as much work as I can at work and less at home, and it's impossible. You will end up doing things at home, some days I don’t do anything, and some days I do a little bit more.

But I always tell myself, just stay for that extra half an hour or hour after school and then you can go home and relax. You're not taking it home with you. And it's made such a big difference to me because in my teacher training, I used to do so much work at home, and I just felt like I had, with teaching, you can always find more work to do. You finish something and there's always something else you can do. Whereas now I kind of schedule it right. I'm going to do this after school today and go home and relax. You need that relaxing time and it makes you feel more refreshed for the next day.

Mark Quinn
Is there is there anything in the programme, actually, Emily, that you've experienced through the materials or through the training sessions you've been to or through your mentoring sessions, that can you point to anything there which has, shone a light on how you might look after yourself and look after your wellbeing?

Emily Taylor
So not directly to wellbeing, but it has helped my wellbeing. Me and Rachel were doing one of the sessions on assessments and marking and that to me is probably one of the most detrimental things to my wellbeing because no one wants to do the marking, but you have to do it and it's time consuming and it can be draining as well. 

And I have lots of strategies how to shorten it down, and we've implemented it as a department, to be honest. So, it was where we did like a target and then something about the work specific rather than writing over every single thing. And then they use a target for the next piece of work, rather than me verbally having to go around, and it's made such a difference, to be honest, because I clearly know my routine for what I do. I read the work, do the target, do what went well, and then the kids now know how to use the target next time. So, I'm not having to go around verbally telling them. So, it's got it all in their book.

Whereas before we kind of just marked the whole answer and went through it. I thought that was the way you marked. But I think the programme, especially for assessment, was focussed on that quite a lot. I've done that for my inquiry question as well. I think if you are able to efficiently like mark it and create assessments, then that saves a lot of work for you as well.

Like I said, the assessment and the marking is the thing that is the worst thing for my wellbeing. I don't mind doing the lessons and planning it. I find that a bit fun, but that's the bit that I don’t find fun. I've got to be honest.

Mark Quinn
What do you pick up in your in your inquiry? Just tell us a little bit about that. Your inquiry around assessment.

Emily Taylor
So, my inquiry for my assessment is looking at Year 7 SEN pupils, all our priorities and seeing how they can access assessments. So previously everyone did the same assessment. But I did find that quite difficult because when I was marking it, they couldn't access it. And then it was so confusing to try and mark what they wrote because they didn't understand the question. I just made it a lot harder than it needed to be. 

So, what we've gone through and done is we've adapted how I actually do the lead up to the assessment and how I can make the same assessment, but an adapted version. And I've just done it, on Monday this week and we’ve marked some together and the answers so much easier to mark because for example, on a map with continents, I've had to put arrows to show where the continents are because the SEN or the lower priority don’t actually know where the continents are to label them. So, they used to just write the countries and the continents in random places, and I couldn't actually see it. So, it was hard to really like mark it. But now I've added the arrows for them, and it's just so much easier to tick that and see what they've got right. So, even just little amendments like that has really, really helped.

Mark Quinn
And you did that with Rachel with your mentor, you devised that.

Emily Taylor
Yeah. And we've done the marking as well together. So, she looked at it just and we've basically made like a little PowerPoint because obviously on the training with the ECF, they basically said do a PowerPoint to your mentor, about your findings. But because I've done it with Rachel, Rachel's basically done it with me. So, there's no point doing it to her.

So, we're going to do it to my faculty, because I do think it quite useful for everyone to see what it is because it's honestly made such a big difference, really.

Mark Quinn
Elaine, I love to hear this kind of thing that these enquiries are much better when they're not done in isolation. If you do them with other people, obviously with your mentor, but with other colleagues in your, in your geography department or in your, in your year group. I think that's great. That's really good to hear.

Elaine Long
Yeah. Can we just go back to the, never eat dinner alone mantra? I love that for two reasons. One, because you call it dinner, which is the same for me. Breakfast, dinner and tea. So, I love that you've called it dinner. And the second thing is, what a great mantra for a department. Never eat dinner alone. I think that's fantastic, actually.

You know, you can get all your, any anxieties you have out your system because they can often be so magnified, can't they, if you just sit in your room alone, mulling over a terrible lesson. I think that's a great mantra.

Emily Taylor
It's been brilliant for me because it's not even be something I thought about what they told me that's what I'm doing. When I started, they were like, you are having dinner with us. If you don't go to the room where we have dinner, they'll come to your door and say you coming for dinner.

They make the experienced teachers do make such a point of, come on get out of your seat and come have dinner and honestly, it is, like you said, with the anxiety, you sometimes have a class, and it went awful, and you go to dinner, you'll say, oh, it was awful. And they'll say, oh, we struggle with that too. And it's just that reassurance.

You sit on your own, you just think, oh, I'm such and such a bad teacher that's gone so terrible. But yeah, we've always done that ever since I've started.

Elaine Long
It makes a huge difference, doesn’t it? Sounds like a really great team around you and as well as your team, you also told you that it's the students themselves that help, to get you through the day. So, can you say something about that and how you make sure you're a steady adult in your students’ lives?

Emily Taylor
I think going back to what I said earlier about we have the same conversation every morning, and even if that's how are you? What did you get up to yesterday? They expect that from me, and if I weren’t to ask how they were, they probably like, she didn’t asked how we were this morning. And sometimes I'll ask about obviously, I know certain pupils have situations at home, so I'll ask them in private, if you need to say, talk to me about anything you can and they really do appreciate that. 

I think Airedale is a very, very challenging community. So not even just children, but just in general. It's a really challenging community. I think what I've noticed here, more than any of my placement schools I went to, the kids here just love talking to adults. They'll come out of the way to talk to adults.

Whereas when I was at school, we’d avoid teachers at all costs at break, we're not talking to them, being in lesson is enough, but here I think I get the impression, because of how their lives can be back home and how the community is, that they don't get much adult conversation, and they will actively come and find you.

And I mean that is the case for all the teachers here. You will always see kids up in classrooms at break time. Just having a little bit of a chat and you can, I think that's what I like because they are challenging pupils, but I think when you get to know them on the form tutor basis or at break time, you see a completely different side to it, and it is just letting them speak to an adult because some of our pupils don't get a chance to speak to adults all and then it helps their development as well.

Elaine Long
Do you find that having that relationship with them outside the context of your subject helps you when you're teaching your subject?

Emily Taylor
1,000,000%. So, there's some pupils that are obviously quite challenging for me, but when I speak to their form teacher, they're like, well, I'll have a word with them, and it makes such a difference. But then I have pupils in my form who I know can be hard hitters around school, and they can be quite gobby and get into trouble, and in my lesson they're absolutely fine. 
I think it is all based on relationships. But I've been prided on my relationships of challenging pupils, people have always said to me, how do you have you got a good relationship with them? They're really difficult with me. And I think it's just letting them speak because like I said, they don't have that chance to do that.

I think some sometimes they just go home, sit in a room and they don't speak to anyone at all. I think you just got to allow them to get it all out in the open. Whatever they need to say, they can say, even if it's something I have no clue about. I just play along with it. I'm just like, yeah, it sounds interesting. Tell me more about it. Even though I've never heard half of the things that they've been up to these days. But yeah, I think that's important.

Elaine Long
So, what advice would you give, Emily, to later to a new ECT starting out about how to build good relationships with students?

Emily Taylor
I think it is just the listening factor. Pupils don't appreciate when you just talk and talk and talk at them. They kind of want to be able to show off a bit, show who they are, and if you shut it down, then that's when it all goes completely wrong. I think just trying to find out some of their interests, like Rachel's always taught me when she's teaching some difficult boys in Year 9, she always, we do a lesson on football around the world and things like that. And even just trying to incorporate some of their interests into a lesson you've got them like that. So, you've got them under the thumb like that. They want to know them all, they want to talk to you, and then they are more engaged in the other lessons as well.

So, I do think just having that time to let them tell you about them, but also finding out little bits of information about them that you can slide into conversations or slide into bits of lessons, and I know a lot of the teachers do that round here. So, for example, drama, I think they're based on TV programmes that I quite popular with the kids and stuff like that. So I think that's how we get them to engage in this sort of community.

Elaine Long
I don't even know where to start with TV programmes

Mark Quinn
Newsnight
Elaine Long
Yeah, it's not Newsnight, Mark. It's definitely not Newsnight. I think when I was teaching it was, I'm a Celebrity Get Me Out of Here. Is it Love Island?

Emily Taylor
Yeah, they Love Island, but there's also like, I think it's more like YouTube these days they like the YouTubers. I've never heard of half of them. I pretend I'm like yeah, yeah, I know who that is.

Mark Quinn
A lady pretending she doesn't know what love Island is.

Elaine Long
I don’t watch it, Mark. I've just I heard that's what the young people watch. But I love the advice of listening because, you know, you get told as a new teacher not to smile till Christmas. You know, that's a good old cliche, but actually though, people rarely say to you, listen, listen to what your pupils are saying and notice, and I think that's really good advice to help you get to know them.

But, Mark, hopefully you're going to bring some intellectual rigour back, back to this.

Mark Quinn
I was thinking, I mean, you're obviously you obviously realise, Emily, that you are a role model for the young people that you are teaching or who see you across the school. And it's, amazing that, you know, you might bump into, one of these people. There are a number of these pupils in 5- or 10-years’ time, but I'm really interested in what you think you'll be doing in 5 or 10 years’ time. Do you think you'll still be teaching.

Emily Taylor
100% and I think even if I went on to do other roles in school, I'd still always want to be in the classroom in some sort of sense. I've always said since I started teacher training before I even started at Airedale, I've always wanted to do something to do with safeguarding. I know it can be quite challenging, but I just feel, like I've said before, pastoral role out, like keeping children safe, making children have got someone to go talk to. And I think I am quite a good listener and I feel like I, I'm able to reassure children and make and feel safe, and it’s always something from the start of my teacher training I've been interested in. In all my placement schools, I've gone and spoke to safeguarding leads and just asked them how they got into their roles.

So, that is 100% the path that I want to go down. I love my subject, but my hearts more to do with the safeguarding and the pastoral.

Mark Quinn
And we do learn, most of what we know about how to work in a school, whether it's leading in a school or teaching in the school. We learn most of that from our colleagues, don't we? Obviously, we go through programmes such as the ECF programme or we go through teacher training, or there could be, you know, there are leadership development courses. But actually, learning by trying it out, by watching other leaders in the school, by watching the safeguarding lead in your school, those people with pastoral responsibility, I'm sure that's the, the principal way that we do pick up how we might behave ourselves in those roles. Is that what you think or other things you might do?

Emily Taylor
I think obviously when I've met the DSLs, I've found out how similar I am in the way that they think about the school, and I think you've got to speak to those sorts of people and I don't shy away from it. And I know when you’re new and when you're an ECT or a trainee, you don't always think, oh, I can go speak to them.

But everyone is so welcoming to me in this school, and I think they are in my schools as well. I've not heard anything from other ECTs I've spoked to on a programme or on online sessions, not really heard anyone feel like there isn't anyone at all they can go to, but I think you find out what you want to do by speaking to those people.

So, my head of department, when she's talking about what her role is, doesn't really seem like sort of interest to me. But I appreciate everything she does. But you're not going to be wanting to do everything. There's going to be a path you want to go down and I think it's usually either pastoral or subject really, isn't it? When you're going down those different paths.

But I, I'm a big believer in that's always what I've wanted to do, and it'll happen in its own time when it's ready.

Mark Quinn
Well, it's obvious just listening to Emily, that you've got, a kind of real holistic view of a young person. Obviously, you're very passionate teacher, and you'd be talking earlier about your, teaching, particularly your Year 11s to their GCSE, but you've got a bigger idea about what it is to be a young person and of what a young person needs from their school and from their community.

So, it's no surprise, to me at all to hear you say that you're interested in and pastoral work and safeguarding work, it does seem to be well suited to you. And those people who were listening carefully will be very pleased to hear that you were thinking about staying at Airedale for all of this.

Emily Taylor
Yeah. I mean, I think it's hard when you get to know the kids because you get so attached and I think any teacher will say that anywhere. And I think people don't appreciate how much of a big decision it is sometimes for someone to move on somewhere else, because I've met teachers here who have left in the time period that I've worked here, and it's never been an easy decision and kids will sometimes say, well, they're just leaving like it's not as simple or black and white as that. 

I think people in other professions don't realise how attached you get to the kids, but just the building just coming into the same building and knowing where everything is. I think it's a completely different ballgame when you consider considering like kids and you've got that relationship with them, you don't want to leave them. It's not the job, it's the people. You don't want to leave. 

Mark Quinn
I think you're right to say that's true of the children as well as the adults. I think the children don't like it when their teachers leave because for them, actually the school is represented by the bodies in the building, not the building as the bodies in the building and actually, it's the teachers, because the teachers stay year after year, after year.

From a child's, from a student's perspective, they are the school, right? 

Emily Taylor
Yeah. 

Mark Quinn
So, when they're, you know, that's why when you bump into a pupil on the street, they still ask you, you know, are you still working at that school or is Mr. So-and-so is still there? And, you know, they're disappointed to hear that they're not.

Emily Taylor
Yeah. And it's like saying, like we said earlier, with the steady adults in their life that they get used to that and quite a lot of, well, quite a lot of the families in Airedale are quite big families. They've got multiple siblings and I've obviously not experienced as much in the past two years. But I've heard Rachel, who's been here for 20 odd years at the same school, since she was a newly qualified teacher, that she's taught the parents and she’s taught their kids.

Then she said, it's nice that parents evening, when parents come back and she taught the parents and she's like, what, and then some of the staff, she taught some of the staff that have come back work here. I think it's that bond with Airedale that makes people stay, that they've got that sort of connection to it.

Elaine Long
I was just about to say, Emily.  That's how, you know, you're old. Someone comes in and they've got children, themselves. 

We're getting to the end. I have a sense that the bell might be about to ring soon, but before we go, we must pass you our customary Post-it note. We give every guest on our podcast a Post-it note to write some advice on.

So, what would you like to write on yours and where would you like to stick it?

Emily Taylor
I think I'd write it. I don't know, I'm trying to think, I know what I'd say, but I don't know where I'd stick it. But what I would say is, be your own teacher and don't try to mould into someone else because it can be so easy to watch someone teach and you think they're amazing, and just try and copy what they do but it doesn’t work. 

So, me and Rachel, completely different teachers in the classroom, both equally got our own ways of doing things, and it's fine. But when you try to do something too much like someone else, you're not being your own person, you're not being authentic, and the kids won't like that. They just want you to be yourself.

So, I probably just stick it somewhere where ECTs can see it when they first start.

Elaine Long
Let's stick on the ECT teacher planner, on the front page. Maybe that would be a great thing for them to see when they open it at the start of the year.

Emily Taylor
Be your own teacher and be yourself.

Mark Quinn
You did promise us that the bell might ring at some point during this chat and I can hear it now. Emily, just before you go, take that long drink of water and that Hobnob away with you. We want to say thank you for spending, the last 45 minutes with us in the ECF Staffroom.

You're clearly a joy in your school, in your classroom. I'm sure the kids actually love being taught by you and Rachel loves being your mentor. Thank you for being our guest and enjoy your evening and the rest of this week.

Emily Taylor
No, thank you. Thank you for having me.

Mark Quinn
Our thanks go to Emily Taylor from Airedale Academy in Castleford for sharing a glass of water and a biscuit with us this week in the ECF Staffroom.

Elaine Long
Please do get in touch with us if you'd like to chat with us about your ECF experience. In the meantime, do join us soon for a biscuit and a chat with another colleague in the ECF Staffroom.

Mark Quinn
And if you've enjoyed this episode, there's more where that came from. Search IOE podcast from wherever you get your podcasts to find episodes of the ECF Staffroom, as well as more podcasts from the IOE.

Elaine Long
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