Ep 3: “A leader is one who knows the way, goes the way and shows the way”

This is the third of five podcasts in celebration of National Apprenticeship Week 2025.

Transcript

Paula Sandamas  0:02  
Good morning everyone, and welcome to day three of National Apprenticeship Week 2025

Uzma Sadiq  0:07  
Morning, morning. 

Paula Sandamas  0:09  
We hope you're all using the week to engage with apprenticeships, all the activities that are offered nationally, to celebrate apprenticeships, and using the opportunity to find out a bit more about apprenticeships and what amazing opportunities they offer and the benefits of them. Today's thought of the day is a quote from John C Maxwell. Is a leader, is one who knows the way, goes the way and shows the way. So we're going to be discussing the importance of the line manager in leading the apprentice and the mindset that they need to best support that apprentice. So, USML, what do you think the very best managers do to support their apprentices? 

Uzma Sadiq  0:47  
So I think the quote of the day sort of sums it to a certain extent. You know that a leader is one who knows the way, goes the way and shows the way, and the latter part being the most important one when somebody's leading an apprenticeship is that they appreciate the journey this apprentice is going to go on, as well as the team in taking on an apprentice and growing this apprentice through to achievement at the end, as I said, I think they show the way and They allow the growth to happen and take their time in understanding. And it may be a, you know, it's not a straight, linear journey at all. It's a very wobbly journey sometimes, and some bits, just like everybody else, you pick up a lot quicker, and others you need to spend a bit more time with, yeah, and just to think that you alone, don't have to do everything. It's a team effort. It's a team apprentice. It's not an individual apprentice. You know that they are solely responsible, yeah, so to bring in everybody together, you know, as a team leader, as a team manager, team being the important word there.

Paula Sandamas  1:57  
 I think that's the thing, isn't it? The the line manager has such a key role in the success for the apprenticeship, either those that we're recruiting as apprentices or current staff that are undertaking that apprenticeship. And I think for me, the very best managers that I've seen in this area is that they're just so engaged, and they continue to be engaged and really interested in the person's journey, and just keeping asking them, you know, how's it going? What are you doing? And it's just making sure that they do that throughout the journey. And you know, it might be that those line managers are called on to identify some things that that individual can do to evidence their learning, and that could be that they sit with a different team member, or somebody shadow, they shadow somebody in that team, or someone in the team shows them a particular task that they're responsible for, or indeed, somebody outside of the team. So they're they're exploring opportunities on behalf of that apprentice to connect them with other people so that they can develop their learning further. And have you got any examples of, you know, amazing line managers, and what it is that they've done that's really emulated that whole knows the way goes the way, shows the way.

Uzma Sadiq  3:19  
 I think, yeah, definitely, we've got some fantastic line managers that you know that really have engaged and embraced apprenticeships. And I think one of the reasons they're able to embrace it is they've invested wholeheartedly, but understood the apprenticeship, understood the outcomes, and have ensured that as a team, they're able to support the apprentice, to meet the outcomes, engage with the training provider and participate in that learning. One of the things we we do have fall off apprentices, especially early career apprentices, is a mentor. You know, we know there's a line manager who may not be the mentor, maybe somebody else, but that engagement after they've had their learning sessions with the training provider. What have they learned? What are the outcomes? What are their goals? You know, their targets, before they have their next session, or within their learning and to totally embrace it and where it's shared with everybody else. It's, it's, it's great. I mean, I know there's some certain departments to say, you know, really had to rethink, you know, what I did when I was learning the skills that, you know I'm now sharing. So it's a real learning journey for everybody. And I think it's really important that everybody embraces it, and you understand what the qualification, the standard, the apprenticeship standard that that's been achieved entails and not and I'm saying, definitely push your apprentice, but understand the levels they need to achieve at what stage. And it is a journey they're taking. They're not the finished product you're producing this, you know, and you're going to reap the rewards as it goes along. 

Paula Sandamas  4:56  
I mean, I think for me, just thinking maybe about. An example from an existing member of staff that's done an apprenticeship, and thinking about the amazing support that his manager gave him, and that was, you know, discussing his progress and keeping keeping that in mind, but also that understanding what that that apprenticeship looks like what's expected of them, and, you know, finding ways or projects or work that can support that. So identifying what is it that we're doing in the department that might support that particular aspect of the apprenticeship? But one of the the key things as well, especially for existing staff. Line managers really have a massive part to play in helping support their reviewing the workload. These are big programs that they're doing, so it's making sure that you're discussing their workload, actually taking things away from them, so that that gives them the time to do their off the job training, but actually that's a great opportunity, because you might take a task off them or ask them to deprioritize something, but there might be somebody else in the department that can do that, and that's a learning journey for them and an opportunity for them. So I think it's those that are really invested and really want to see the outcome for those individuals and model modeling that behavior is a really good example to those apprentices, isn't it? You know, someone's really invested in me and really interested in my development.

Uzma Sadiq  6:33  
 I've just recalled that there was one of our apprentices that was working in a lab, and quite soon after he joined, you know, the team were going, it's part of a research project. The team were going abroad, and it was part and parcel of that. Oh, you'll be part of the team. Yeah, you come in along your passport, you know, being included, yes, you know, ensure that they're part of your planning. Yeah, you know, when anything is happening, that they're part of that.

Paula Sandamas  6:57  
Absolutely, I think what's really important, and this has been really successful in some of the areas I've worked in, is, yes, you need to nurture these people. If they're new into the organization, they may be new into the workforce. They do need some nurturing, but actually very quickly, and we've talked about this before, very quickly, they establish themselves, but it's then actually being really have high expectations of that individual, isn't it? You know, they are part of the team. It is a job. It's not they're not just coming in to just do some training. They're here to do a job, and they can deliver. There's really so I think for the manager, it's around having that expectation that they they're a member of the team, and they can really make a really positive contribution. So why do you think managers should consider employing an apprentice? 

Uzma Sadiq  7:50  
I think there's more than one reason why they should consider employing an apprentice, and that's bringing in new talent and bringing in new ideas, fresh ideas, and sustaining yourself for the future. Yeah, and some apprenticeships, yes, they're only a year or so, and others are four or five years, you know. So you're, you've got a sustained member of the team there that you know, you you're not really going to be losing during that period of time. So I think that definitely has an advantage, you know, you can pick up certain skills gaps within the team and fill them through bringing somebody new in who could learn those skills and share them and ease the burden within the team. But it is succession planning. It is, you know, people planning for your future, for the future of your team, and ensuring that everybody has the opportunity there to participate in that learning journey as well. How about yourself?

Paula Sandamas  8:53  
I think, you know, we've seen some really successful programs in our ISD department, who have been doing apprenticeships for a few years now, where what we've been able to do is recruit our apprentices in they do a rotation, so they're building up their skills and knowledge, and then actually, we've been able to retain those apprentices and feel hard to recruit roles. So it's a really good way if you've got roles that you know, you can't fill with through the traditional routes to bring new and new and exciting and, you know, keen people into the organization. But I think also it is what you're saying about that succession planning, isn't it? You know, if you're developing skills and filling those gaps. Then, if you've got a stream of talent coming through, then when a vacancy becomes available for existing staff to be promoted or to progress, you've got somebody immediately that's ready to backfill. And so it's it just is it makes sense. For managers to think about the long term and think about this as a real source of new talent and that can support their plans in the in the future is so much transferable skills that they're gaining anyway. So it's not just being staying stagnant within your department. It's about being able to progress into other areas as well. Especially you're talking about the rotation allows you a lot more with what we're doing with our current apprentices, you know, early career apprentices, but then we've got mid career apprenticeship opportunities as well. Yeah, yeah. And I know you do a lot of work with the mid careers through the cohorts that we put together, yeah. And what benefits are they finding? Well, I think, you know, it's, it is about, you know, we talk about progression, and I think people immediately think that's promotion, and it isn't, is it? It's progression is about you developing and growing, and that could be in your existing role, or it could be that actually you're looking for a sideways move and that that gives you, it's still progression, but, you know, but not, not how people kind of think of progression traditionally. So I think these are opportunities for you to motivate your your teams, you know, allowing them the opportunity to develop new skills as a real motivator. And I know that, you know, well being is a really important factor. Actually, this really contributes to positive well being for your team, and motivation and morale, where you're investing in that person and the message that gives them. You know, that we really believe in you. We're investing time in your in your development, and I think that that that's a really positive thing, and just seeing the skills that they bring back to that team. You know, we've got lots of examples of new initiatives and changes to working practices that have been as a result of somebody developing those skills through an apprenticeship. So I think it's, it's a really positive thing that we should be encouraging managers to think about really. I do think one of the questions we always get asked is, isn't it a big time commitment for me? You know as a manager, what? What do you think about that? 

Uzma Sadiq  12:23  
You get that back 10 fold? Don't you with what they bring back and what they've learned, what they can put in practice straight away? Yeah, it's, it's worth every penny you know of that time that you've invested, every minute, I should say, that time you've invested just sharing and giving that opportunity, it links in with your recruitment as well. Because if you think the time and the money it takes to recruit somebody into a position, the apprenticeship route is actually a very viable route, because it's done a lot more efficiently with a lot of variety of people. You know that you could can you know that the pool out there can be quite good? Yeah, they come in with with other skills that you wouldn't consider

Paula Sandamas  13:07  
Obviously, if you're developing your existing staff and preparing them for maybe to move into roles that become vacant, then you know that's that's more cost effective as well, isn't it and time effective than having to advertise and try and bring people in and, you know, acclimatize them to the culture and all that,

Uzma Sadiq  13:29  
we really have to be forward thinking. We really have to be inclusive, yeah, and, you know, give those opportunities and have...

and have something ready before

Paula Sandamas  13:37  
And I think there is an element of, you know, I think there's this assumption, if it's a young person coming in, oh, they're a young apprentice, won't they need a lot of hand holding? And I think, you know, we, we can think of people, can't we that, you know, 17 year olds, 18 year olds that hugely independent and just amazing employees that needed very little support, and others, maybe at the other end of this spectrum that actually needed a bit more support. So it but it's important to invest that time, but it's sometimes not as onerous as people imagining it to be. And I think you know, that's a sign, isn't it of a good leader. A good manager is going to be one that's interested in their staff and spending time catching up with them, having regular conversations with them. So I really think they're, you know, they're incredible opportunities that all managers should be considering for their for their team and for themselves. I mean, we have leadership and management programs that we're offering through apprenticeships. 

Uzma Sadiq  14:46  
Okay, sothank you, thank you today, and thank you everyone for listening in today, and we hope you were able to catch up with the podcast from day one and two, and also stay with us for day. Four and five because we're on day three now. We are, we are and looking forward to seeing everybody tomorrow. Thank you. Bye, bye.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai