Ep 1: “Great places don’t just hire talent, they grow it within”

Welcome to the first of our five daily podcasts to celebrate National Apprenticeship week 2025.

Transcript

Paula Sandamas  0:00  
Good morning. Morning, morning. Welcome to National Apprenticeship Week 2025, day one. I'm Paula Sandamas, mass, and I'm with Uzma Sadiq, and we are the apprenticeship managers at UCL, and we've had this idea for the podcast for some time, but we wanted to use National Apprenticeship Week to share our thoughts with you, have a conversation and give some advice and knowledge and share some tips for people that are interested in apprentices, apprenticeships, and anyone that wants to find out more about the opportunities that they provide. So for each of these podcasts, we're going to have one per day for National Apprenticeship Week, and we're going to have a thought of the day, which we hope will inspire people, and that will be the theme of the session. So this first day one, we're going to be talking about great places don't just hire talent, they grow it within and that's going to be our theme. So before we start the discussions about why it's important to grow talent within the organization, we wanted to just tackle some top myths about what apprenticeships are and show that they provide many opportunities for everybody, for the individual that's undertaking the apprenticeship, but for the organization as well. So I guess we'll start with what are the main misunderstandings that we come across? So, Asma, what are the main myths that you've come across? 

Uzma Sadiq  1:37  
I think the main myth when we're talking to the general cohort. We've got, you know, staff at UCL is isn't it? For a 16 year old, I'm too old for this, and it's like, Oh no, it's there for everybody. It really doesn't matter your age. You just got to be willing and able to do so and fit it into your your work, your life, work, life balance. But also it's looking at ensuring that what apprenticeship you want to do is relevant to your next career, or your current career pathway that you're taking just the level was also, you know, oh, I've already got a master's or or a degree, or I don't have any qualifications. I didn't pass my GCSEs, you know, row levels. And, you know, in my case, and that's not a barrier for you to sort of move forwards and use an apprenticeship route to progress and learn. How about you? What do you think those are? 

Paula Sandamas  2:31  
It's the same, isn't it? I think when people, when you talk to people about apprenticeships, there's this misconception that it's what it was years ago, which was for young people that were looking for an alternative to traditional education, somebody that wants to be a hairdresser, a brick layer, those trades, and whilst those opportunities still there, and fantastic opportunity for people to develop those skills and develop careers in their area. I think people don't realize that, you know, over 800 standards available different levels and for existing staff, as well as as people that want to come into the workplace. So, yeah, I think it's, it's trying to get people to understand that there's a whole range of things out there. And as you say, there's no barrier to it. It's just about providing opportunities for people to develop knowledge and skills and develop careers. And so, yeah, I think that's that is a common and one that we find, I think also as well, it is about this, this idea about, well, apprenticeships, you know, they're not, they're not for you. It's only for people that wouldn't access university. You know, it's, it's almost like a second rate route. And that's really not the case. I mean, we've seen some amazing programs, and, you know, just to see people grow through those programs is incredible. And I think the quality of those programs are really amazing. And I think, you know, we want people to understand this is a real viable alternative to university for people, and then for those that are in the workplace, you know an opportunity to develop skills to support what you're doing now and then, where you want to be so. So why do you think it's important that UCL and other large organizations grow the talent? 

Uzma Sadiq  4:39  
I think it's really important to grow our own absolutely especially when there's so much skill shortage that we keep hearing about, and it's preeminent in, you know, in all departments as well. But the thing is, through the apprenticeship, you know, is that you get to learn the skills, practice them, so you're prepared, so you've got the training provider. Others that we work with that are going to give you that knowledge base, etc, foundation, and some opportunities to learn the skills. But the real learning and the real putting it into practice is in your workplace. So you're actually benefiting straight away. It's not a tomorrow benefit at some stage in your life you may use it. It's putting it into practice, into everyday life, and making the most of it, absolutely so, why not grow our own talent? Why not give those opportunities to the next generation, but also give those opportunities for people that are already there, that need that experience, that can get it while they're still working to, you know, take whether it's a sideways career move or an upward career move, whatever suits their their career pathway that they want to take, but also taking into consideration the department's needs and skills gaps that we have by the time you've recruited somebody, and what the, you know, paying extortionately, You could have invested and made such a huge difference to someone that you already know, you know you've already got that relationship with So, yeah, absolutely growing our own. It's one of our mottos, isn't it? The way forward?

Paula Sandamas  6:13  
I think, I think that's the thing. You know, we go to conferences and meetings all the time, and people are talking about the recruitment crisis and how difficult it is to find staff to fill the recruitment needs. And actually, if you look beyond that, and you think about, you know, is there? There's a talent pool there. Isn't there. There's young people that, or anybody career changes, anyone that's interested in developing a career. It's another source of talent which people don't think about so, you know, it provides opportunities where you've got, you know, hard to recruit roles. There might be a group of people that would be interested in, in coming on board and being developed, and using the apprenticeship route to do that. And I think also, as you say, it's about existing staff and looking at how you can support their development, rather than always looking outside of the organization. I mean, I think it's, it's it's good to bring different people into the organization with a different viewpoint, but we've got vast talent here at UCL, and we can use that apprenticeship to develop those skills and to, you know, plan for the future, think about what skills we might need in the future. And, you know, use the apprenticeships to develop that in our existing workforce, so we don't have to spend all the time and the money on, on looking externally, and really to, you know, motivate our existing staff as well. They're, they're great motivators for the apprenticeships. We've seen it with existing staff that are doing it. And just the growth that comes from it is just amazing, and they're benefiting personally, but the organization benefits hugely from that, the skills that they bring in, as you said before, they're bringing those skills in immediately, and we're seeing the benefits of it. 

Uzma Sadiq  8:18  
So I think, like you're saying, it's, you know, what we put into our current staff. We definitely reap the benefits to but that leads us into bringing in new, you know, new staff and young people and career changes to consider apprenticeships. You know, our succession planning and when we're, you know, planning for the future. What do we need to consider, you know, so what do you think about that, and how we're dealing with that,

Paula Sandamas  8:47  
With bringing young people in? Yeah, I think that, you know, we've got lots of people that are really engaged in trying to tap into that new talent. And I think, you know, those programs that we've done really well, it's because people have really understood the support that they need to give those young people. So you're bringing people in that maybe haven't got much experience, or certainly not in the area, so they need to be nurtured, and there is a an element of support that they need to provide. But, you know, we've seen people come into the organization with no experience at all, and very quickly they're embedded into the organization, and they're, you know, they're operating fully and really contributing to the the organization so, and we've got examples of people that have started at their entry level, and they've they've secured permanent positions after that apprenticeship. And I've got people that are now in, you know, like senior roles in the organization, and that apprenticeship has given them a really. Good foundation to be able to build a career at UCL. So I think it's about, you know, anyone that's thinking about an apprenticeship, or hadn't considered an apprenticeship, looking into it and seeing it as a real opportunity to get experience, to develop skills and start their career, whether that's at UCL or beyond, really, what about you? What do you think about why a young person should, or a career changer should, consider an apprenticeship?

Uzma Sadiq  10:33  
I just think from seeing some of the young people flourish, grow, develop and mature through the apprenticeship. And it's, it's quite a fast process really. You actually start seeing it within weeks of them joining just the way, they're standing tall, the language they're using, they're being really engrossed within what they're doing. And that can't happen unless you've got those staff there that can mentor and support them. So that whole package is really important. And I think we've been really, really lucky that, you know, in a lot of our departments that we're working with that it's they've embraced that new generation. Because, you know what, we've got an aging workforce. That's reality. And I know from the technical community I work with, it's hard to recruit. We don't have that new generation coming through. And so to be able to share that their knowledge and skills and all those years of experience they have and mold the next generation and show their show off their you know, their abilities is works great on both sides, but yeah, that growth you see in that person's development, not just academically and professionally, but personally, just the way it's beautiful to see that makes the job worthwhile for me.

Paula Sandamas  11:49  
And I think, I think what you were saying there about the being on both sides we've seen, you know, we assign mentors to anybody that's coming into UCL as an apprentice, and that's a real opportunity, isn't it, for somebody that maybe we want to develop into a management position in the future. That's a real taste of how they can support somebody and develop those skills. So it's not just the the apprentice that benefits, it's UCL, but also those people around that apprentice. And I think it's also recognizing that if we're bringing different people into the organization, organization with different experiences, different viewpoints, they bring with them, you know, it's not a one way. Thing is it? It's not just us us teaching them. It's also about what they bring and their perspectives. And you know, what we've seen with our apprentices that we've recruited into UCL is the diversity in terms of experience, their backgrounds, their opinions, their perspectives. And that's been really, you know, something that we would encourage at UCL. We want to hear different voices. So what about, you know, existing staff that might want to do an apprenticeship? What? What kind of advice do you think you would have for them?

Uzma Sadiq  13:14  
I think Go for it, definitely give it an opportunity, but I think also make sure that you understand the commitment. You know, it is a real commitment, finding that balance between work life and study. So it's ensuring that you've got that support network, you know, within the workplace, as well as at home. And you know, we've experienced the fact that the most successful and easier journeys are those which have their managers support, and they have the opportunity to meet the outcomes and gain that experience that they need. And that's the key, I think you know relation to in relation to it, and you will learn to learn again. It's just as long as you've got the want.

Paula Sandamas  13:59  
We obviously run programs for existing staff. So we run those as cohorts, or we run, you know, if people want to do an individual apprenticeship, but I've worked quite a lot with the cohorts, and it has been really hard going for people, you know, finding that day a week to do your off the job training, which is a requirement, it's really tough when you've got a busy work schedule and it, as you say, it comes into that support of the line manager there, then being able to kind of work with the individual, to work out what your priorities are, to release the time to do it. But you immediately get those benefits the individual, the skills that they bring that they're then doing things with. So I mean, just as an example, we've had our data and insight programs that we've just finished our pilot of, and I'm just thinking of one individual in particular. He had a really tough time. He was like he was halfway through, and I'm not sure I can carry on with it. Well, he. Did with the support of his manager, and he's brought in some amazing stuff that he's implemented in the department, which has been money saving. It's time saving, it's efficiencies there. And he just passed with a distinction. It was amazing, that achievement. And the other thing is, because you have to do have your English and maths at a certain level as part of the apprenticeship. If you don't have that, you've got to do your functional skills. He was needing to do functional skills because he hadn't got his maths GCSE. And he was doing that on top of it's a really demanding but he passed that and, you know, just that achievement and the look of delight on his face, that real, you know, yeah, challenge that he'd overcome, and that perseverance he's shown, and it's incredible to witness that, really lovely to see that journey. So I think, you know, people have got to think it through. And we always say, don't we, you know, it's not about us just putting bums on seats, you know, loads and loads of people doing apprenticeship. It's about what impact is that going to have, and making sure that it's the right thing, because it's not for everybody. But I think that if people can get through that challenge, what an amazing achievement. So what about success stories? Any, any kind of particular, I mean, I've talked about one, but any particular example?

Uzma Sadiq  16:31  
I think, you know, everyone is a success story. They genuinely are and in their own ways, you know, whether it's the fact that they've been able to secure a job at the end. So it's a new apprenticeship apprentice, and that means a salary increase. It means security. And for those that are already, you know, the existing staff with us, for them, that opportunity to actually show that they can they've got the evidence now to prove that they can move on and progress their personal growth, their independence, you know, their ability to travel independently because they're paid positions. Yeah, some of ours have won national awards and been nationally recognized. And that's amazing, that personal growth, yeah, from some of those very shy, reserved young people coming in and even mature people you know, to actually having a voice and sharing, we don't know, with some of our young people that do join in and some of our new colleagues what happens in their personal lives and what challenges they have at home. So this is a real opportunity for them, and they've embraced it with both hands and just run with it. And it's been beautiful to see, beautiful to see. And I think

Paula Sandamas  17:45  
For me, and we talk about every, every story, being this success, and we do have a really high amount of apprentices that we recruit into the organization that that are offered a permanent job afterwards. Because obviously we don't guarantee that we've got people that don't secure a permanent job, but actually, there's still a success because, you know, I think of one young person that we had with us, and he didn't, there wasn't a job after, after for him, but he's now working in another organization and just flying in terms of his, you know, his career and his progression and the contribution he's making to that organization, and he's a real ambassador as well for apprenticeship. So he's he's doing a lot of work in the community around trying to raise profile of apprenticeships. 

Uzma Sadiq  18:35  
It's not just for our students that come in to study at UCL. It's for our students that work through UCL and get those opportunity. You know, I've got engineers that have gone into international firms and and have them travel abroad. And we love the opportunity, you know, that we can actually be part of that journey with them and share it. And, yeah, yeah, it's really good. Yeah, yeah. Can't wait for tomorrow.

Paula Sandamas  19:01  
So, yeah. So, I think that was what we wanted to cover today, wasn't it absolutely and we kind of hope that, if you're listening, that it's inspired you to find out more. I think we enjoyed sharing our thoughts with you. We hope that you know people realize that you know, great places like UCL have got opportunities for for you, no matter what your experience and your background. 

Uzma Sadiq  19:31  
Thanks for your time. This morning, Paula, it's been great as usual, and thank you all for listening, I hope you found it useful, and it inspired you to find out more about apprenticeships, which is what we want out of this, isn't it. And you enjoyed listening and us sharing our own experiences which are really important to us, and you realize how and why a place like you. CL is a great place to work with great opportunities for you to find out more. Obviously, they can visit our website. We've got lots of information on there, and we'll be adding some bits at the end for them to be able to see. And great places don't just hire talent. They grow from within. Thank you. Thanks. Bye.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai