Close
Did you know that disposable nappies account for approximately 400,000 tonnes of waste each year, representing 2-3% of household waste? We're trying to change that.
The numbers are quite shocking. In the UK, absorbent hugeine products like nappies, period products and adult incontinence pads contribute significantly to landfill waste. We chuck out 400,000 tonnes of disposable nappies a year – that’s 2 – 3 % of all household waste[1] whilst estimates for menstrual products vary with one study indicating 200,000 tonnes of waste annually[2]. And when it comes to adult incontinence products, we’re looking at 3 billion waste products annually[3]. These are staggering numbers.
In this episode we speak to Elze Porte and Ayse Allison who are working to reduce this waste. Hear how their systemised approach is working with manufacturers, users and waste management systems to make sure we’re not adding to the landfill.
- Transcript
Ferdouse Akhter 00:06
Hi and welcome to another episode of Health in a Handbasket. I'm your host, Ferdouse, Community and Marketing Manager at UCL's Institute of Healthcare Engineering, and today we're picking out the topic of Nappies. Well, really, we're talking more about absorbent hygiene products. So I'm joined by Elze Porte and Ayse Alison, hi, hello, hello. So Elze is a mechanical engineer working in soft materials and robotics to improve our healthcare. And Ayse is a behavioral scientist, and her work broadly focuses on understanding and supporting behavioral changes for our health. So let's start off with what problem you're trying to solve here.
Elze Porte 00:40
We are looking at a problem of absorbent hygiene products, which include nappies and adult incontinence and also period products. And what a lot of people don't know is that this is actually a huge part of our waste stream. For example, nappies in the UK are about two to 3% of the waste coming from households. So what we want to do in our research is reducing the impact on the environment from these products. What we do in this project is we try to understand all the different parts of the system of nappies and incontinence products and what I mean by system is everyone who is involved in some way so that goes from raw materials to manufacturers to users to the waste management companies, and we analyze their roles in the system and look at the challenges and opportunities to improve the sustainability of the products.
Ferdouse Akhter 01:37
I mean, even nappies itself, accounting for what about two? 3% of waste in the UK is a really, really big problem, and if you don't add in stuff like sanitary products and incontinence products...
Elze Porte 01:47
Exactly, our aging population where adult incontinence products are going to be a bigger, bigger part of this waste stream. And we really need to do something about this to meet our sustainability goals.
Ferdouse Akhter 02:00
And how long does it take for something like a nappy to decompose in a landfill?
Elze Porte 02:04
That can take hundreds of years.
Ferdouse Akhter 02:05
But nappies aren't the biggest contributor. I think we all forget stuff like incontinence products, and like you said, with an aging population, so those are a bigger, maybe a burden on the landfill sites and stuff
Elze Porte 02:15
They will definitely become in the future, the nappies and incontinence products are very similar in the way they are made and the materials that go into them. So we focus on that piece first, because it's problem that a lot of parents face, and it's there's really very little stigma around it, whereas with adult incontinence products, there's quite a lot of stigma, and also there's less research already on the adult incontinence. So nappies are a little bit of an easy entry point into researching this problem. To tackle this problem, we work with a team of researchers in different fields. So I'm a mechanical engineer. We also have life cycle assessment expert and chemist, and we also have someone who's looking into the behavioral side of using these products.
Ferdouse Akhter 02:58
Yeah, and I guess that's where you come in, Ayse
Ayse Allison 03:00
Elze sort of did a really good point of setting up the whole system, sort of interdisciplinary approach of this project, and a big part of being able to sustainably provision these products, essentially, is behavior change. So obviously we need to, you know, make sure that these products are kind of provisioned, sort of in an environmentally sustainable way, kind of in an economically viable way, but also in a way that works for people as well. Because people, you know, we're the ones who are using these products, a big strategy in the sustainable provision of these types of products is reuse. So we're trying to look at how, you know, just kind of thinking of the kind of EU's waste hierarchy, reducing the amount that these products are used overall, but also transitioning to models of reuse are going to be really important. And so, sort of like the work that I'm doing at the moment is just trying to understand, how can users of these products be supported to transition to reuse. So the kind of like the first part of this work has been looking at, you know, what are the barriers and enablers to adoption of reusable nappies so that we can reduce the total amount of disposable nappies that are used
Ferdouse Akhter 04:05
Even reusable nappies have, like, come a long way, I'm guessing.
Ayse Allison 04:08
yeah, you've kind of highlighted from the research that we've done so far. So we've kind of just finished data collection. One of the key issues in this area, there are so many different products that are available now. I mean, there are so many barriers to adoption of reusable nappies that we identified, but one of them is this really steep learning curve, and this is identified in people who are users of these products as well. There are just so many different types, different ones that you can use at different stages. So I suppose, for the purpose of this research, because there is kind of a paucity of behavioral evidence and research in this area, we've taken this kind of really broad term. So for us, when we're saying reusable nappy, we're really just, we're talking about fully reusable nappies, reusable nappies that might have a disposable part, so like a disposable insert, we're really kind of focusing on the behavior associated with using the product, rather than the product itself. So just anything that is designed to be used more. Multiple times.
Ferdouse Akhter 05:01
Why has there been a shift from multi use nappies to single use?
Ayse Allison 05:05
It's really complex and multifaceted, and it's kind of difficult to disentangle it from wider changes in society. But from what we've understood so far on this topic, there have just been dramatic changes in the caregiving environment generally. So these are things like increase, particularly in industrialized nations, increased kind of maternal participation in the workforce, both parents, working, parents working, more use of daycare services, just generally, parents having less time with their children. But also the nuclear family, sort of being away from other, wider care structures. And so really disposable nappies. They're just, I mean, Elsa can talk more about this, but they're just an incredible like, in terms of the design and the thing that they can do, they're just so well designed, and so they do a fantastic job, and they're so convenient. And right now, they're answering a problem for parents, which is that they're just so stretched for time, like parenting is so difficult, so hard, it's such a hostile environment for young parents, particularly in the UK, disposable nappies are just very convenient, and they are answering a key problem that parents have today. And so either, yeah, it's complex and it's multifaceted, but I think it really just boils down to the changes in the caregiving environment, meaning parents just have less time with their children. And yeah, disposable nappies just yeah, they're just so much more convenient.
Ferdouse Akhter 06:29
I guess they're also cheaper, because when I look at, I mean, I don't have a baby so I haven't really looked into reusable nappies, but reusable period products, it's it's a lot more expensive to get it. Is quite expensive than, like, buying single use period products like pads and stuff like that.
Ayse Allison 06:46
Yeah, it's, it's interesting, because in the you know, there have been some analyzes, and while disposable nappies kind of in the long term, then they are quite expensive. But it's just that you can break down that cost. So again, this just boils down to kind of, maybe the economic and the financial situation of families, reusable nappies are associated with cost, but it's more an upfront cost over the long term, throughout kind of the life of a of a child in that developmental period, reusable nappies can be a lot cheaper. They can also be reused for subsequent children. So it's not necessarily that reusable nappies are more expensive. It's just there are lots of upfront costs associated with adopting them, which is obviously, very understandably, a key barrier, particularly if you're a family and you're living paycheck to paycheck, and you just can't really afford to drop a lot of money upfront to adopt these products. And also, especially when you don't know if it will work out. You don't know if you've brought the right product, you might need to buy another product.
Ferdouse Akhter 07:40
In my culture, we don't stay in nappies for that long, but I think the Western norm is to stay in nappies for a lot longer, maybe until, like, your toddler or walking age. So why is it that there's been a behavioral change of not potty training earlier, and a certain stigma around it? I remember seeing something on social media of like this woman who was potty training her son, who was only like six months or seven months old. How come we've shifted in culturally in the western world of potty training a lot later. You know what's wrong with potty training your kid earlier? But it seems like the cultural norm has shifted so much where that's quite a very out there thing to even say that I'm going to potty train my child before the age of one.
Ayse Allison 08:20
So there are lots of different ways which one can go about potty training, and we're not really advocating for a particular type of approach, because it's a very it's a very personal decision for a family. But what we have observed in the so called West are these trends for later and later potty training, and even because sort of Eric the children's bladder and bowel society here in the UK recommends that children potty train between 18 and 30 months, but we are seeing that trends for potty training being shifted way past that, and even if we look back 50 years in the UK, average potty training ages have increased. I think there was a study that recently got released. It was a YouGov survey, and it was about children's school readiness. And first year, one teachers were saying that a quarter of their students in class were not yet potty trained. So there's definitely this shift in that direction this project. We've been having conversations with child care experts, health care experts. And I mean, you can see some of this guidance, sort of on the NHS potty training website to sort of put something into nappy so that children are able to feel wet and Elze Can talk much more about this in terms of the nappy design. But something that people are sort of concerned about is that the very, very high absorbency of disposable nappies, which is essentially what they're designed to do. They just do such a good job of it that it sort of interrupts that learning process for children to be able to sense the bodily sensation of being wet, which is really important to learn continents. I really need to caveat that we are not healthcare experts in this area. This is just insights that we've gained through talking to Experts in this area. We're definitely looking at it from a waste management sustainability perspective. But obviously what this does mean is that the very high absorbency of disposable nappies has a role to play in potentially these later trends in potty training that we're seeing, which just means kids are in nappies for a lot longer, and so it just means there's just loads more nappy waste going into landfill. There's definitely an understanding, particularly, what's the healthcare professionals that we spoke to as well, and childcare experts. There's so much individual variation. And so, you know, definitely the take home from this shouldn't be that, you know, everybody needs to be sort of like potty training earlier. Because, you know, if there are kids who have different needs, and again, there can be like, different children will have different circumstances. There is so much variation. It's just that generally, we are observing this trend towards later and later toilet training. And when we do speak with the healthcare professionals, these are it's not a given, but these are associated with health risks as well, sort of like higher risk for urinary tract infections and in terms of sort of social adjustment in school as well, like higher risk of sort of being bullied and things like that, which can have long term mental health impacts as well. So we're really sort of talking about this from a high level, sort of trend perspective, that we're observing these trends towards later and later toilet training completion, and obviously this has huge impacts for waste generation, which is why we're looking at it as the plastic waste hub.
Elze Porte 11:23
And as scientists, we're looking at this problem using the so called Three R's, which is reduce, which in this case, could be earlier potty training, and then reuse of materials which would be reusable or multi use NAT piece, and then recycle, which is the more end of life, the waste, the recycling, the nappy waste.
Ayse Allison 11:47
That's a really good point from Elze. Again, we're not sort of advocating, you know, like, need to do this. We need to do that. We're kind of taking this whole systems approach, where, how, in order to sustainably, sort of like, ethically and justly provision these types of products to society. What is the role of these three different strategies, and how do they fit in? Because obviously, recycling is brilliant, but it is the most resource intensive way of managing the waste from these products. And so we're trying to look at, well, how could reduce and reuse fit in there as well. So we're really taking this holistic perspective, and we're not sort of arguing for any one thing. We're trying to see how all of these fit together so that any transition really works for people as Well.
Ferdouse Akhter 12:32
So where's your research at now?
Elze Porte 12:34
So we talked to different stakeholders, different parts of this system, and we recently visited a nappy recycling facility in the Netherlands, which is really at the forefront of technological advancement of dealing with this, this nappy waste.
Ayse Allison 12:51
From my side, we have recently finished two sets of interviews with parents and primary caregivers looking at influences on potty training, and also influences on nappy use. And a large, UK wide survey, which is the first bit of data collection has been done, we've got a little bit left to go, so that's almost there, and that will be between 500 and 1000 participants. We've spoken to a decent number of people, and then based on those findings, we're going to develop sort of a preliminary set of intervention recommendations that with stakeholder input. And these stakeholders will range from, you know, parents, caregivers, school nursery staffs, policy makers in this area, industry, stakeholders as well, who's sort of going to get all the key stakeholders together to input into this intervention recommendation, sort of CO design process. So that's sort of the setting up that intervention workshop is sort of where we are now with this research.
Ferdouse Akhter 13:49
So about the recycling plant, do they break the nappy apart and take materials from it? How does that work?
Elze Porte 13:55
Yes. So they essentially cut the nappy up into really small pieces and then try to separate the plastics that are in the nappy from the other bits of the nappy, which include something that is called the absorbent core, which is made from a fluff pulp, which is a cotton like material, and a super absorbent polymer. And this is the most important bit of the nappy that absorbs all the liquid, and this is what wasn't around, let's say, 50 years ago. And that's also what made this shift from the reusable cloth nappies that you talked about into this disposable product possible. So they separate out the plastics from the fluff pulp and the super absorbent polymer, and then the plastics go into processes like injection molding to make new products, but at this moment, the super absorbent polymer, they are not able to recycle it that still goes to incineration in the Netherlands, because landfill is not an option there in the UK, that's slightly different, where it is legal to landfill.
Ferdouse Akhter 14:59
So. They burn the nappies in the Netherlands?
Elze Porte 15:03
So they burn the nappies in the Netherlands this recycling facility, they recycle the plastics that come out of the nappy, but they still have to burn this super absorbent polymer because that is, at the moment, not recyclable, but it is the largest part of a nappy, even with the state of the art technology. About 40 to 50% of the nappy is still going to be burned.
Ferdouse Akhter 15:27
And is that kind of what you're working on now is trying to get that super absorbent layer to be recycled.
Elze Porte 15:32
What we're working on now is with this recycling facility, if there are options to recycle this super absorbent polymer, but also look at other options, if there is a way to use different materials that are recyclable already, but that's a really big challenge, because the super absorbent polymer is in this product, because it is so amazing at doing its job of absorbing the liquids.
Ferdouse Akhter 15:56
So I've never actually heard of a nappy recycling plant. So how does that work? You drop your nappy off to a special bin.?
Elze Porte 16:03
So how it works in the Netherlands, there's also a nappy recycling plant in wills, actually we visited the one in the Netherlands. The way it works is that people drop off their nappies in a special bin that can be located at daycare facility or at their supermarket, and then the local authority collects the waste from these bins. So it's nappies and incontinence products that can go into these bins, and they collect it and bring us to this recycling facilities. It's a waste stream that only consists of absorbent hygiene products.
Ferdouse Akhter 16:33
I guess sustainability is a really big goal here, but how are you going to go about doing that? Is that by creating new materials, or by making it more compostable.
Elze Porte 16:42
What we found in this project, looking at all the different parts of the system, is that compostability may not be the best way forward, because even though the products may work very well, at least in UK, there's a lot of legislation that needs to be changed for these products to really be used as compost. So for a UK perspective, we think the recycling route might be more feasible. And then we need to look at how can we make products that really fit into this recyclability? What can we do to both connect the product to the end of life, where there are being recycled. So what sort of materials are recyclable? Should we look at different options for this absorbent core rather than having these super absorbent polymers? Or should we just invent a recycling technique for these specific polymers. One aspect of our project is being done by chemist who is looking into, can we degrade these super absorbent polymers using enzymes? And it's a very, very new technology, which won't be ready, let's say, next year. But really, on the long term, this could be a very impactful way to deal with this waste.
Ferdouse Akhter 17:59
I'm guessing the reason why maybe a lot of countries haven't got nappy recycling facilities is because it's quite costly. So how are you working on making sure it's sustainable and not as costly at the same time?
Elze Porte 18:12
It's a very good question. It's likely also indeed, why there aren't that many around yet? Because it's very difficult to have it economically feasible. A lot of governments are moving towards making landfill and incineration more expensive, so recycling of materials becomes a much better option for manufacturers and waste management companies to consider.
Ayse Allison 18:35
So yeah, we are working with policy makers, kind of local and national levels, because local authorities are very important to consider here as well, on their views, on the types of strategies that could be implementable and feasible given sort of the real world context within which we're working in.
Ferdouse Akhter 18:54
So to end things off, let's talk about your journey here. So how did you come to work on nappies or incontinence products.
Elze Porte 19:01
It's kind of a long journey, because I started studying mechanical engineering, which is a lot about metals and machines. Towards the end of my degree, I actually discovered that engineering is a lot more than the traditional machines I thought about then I started working on soft materials that can help healthcare. I worked on a project on artificial cartilage replacements to help joint implants. And that's where I really discovered the beauty of soft materials and materials that interact directly with the human body, and that's how I slowly got into more soft materials. I also worked on soft robotics, where, rather than having a robot that is made of rigid parts, making a robot that is more like animals or a human being, because there's no animal that only consists of very. Part, there's always some sort of soft material. Soft materials can have a really big impact on our health and well being, and nappies or incontinence products is also an example of a soft material that has a really big impact on our health and well being. Let's not forget that these products are incredibly important for our well being. At a very young age, when you're a baby, to a very old age, when you might need incontinence products. For some part of the population, it's the majority of your life.
Ferdouse Akhter 20:31
Yeah, if you're a female, you're in nappies and period products, and then maybe incontinence products. Ayse, how did you come to work on nappies?
Ayse Allison 20:40
I ended up doing a PhD at the plastic waste hub, and that project was very much to do with the circular economy as well and waste management, but looking at the product category of plastic packaging and compostable plastic packaging, and so that was sort of my introduction into the world of sort of complex, wicked problem solving, sort of systems thinking. And so when the opportunity came up to work on this project, I was just like, yes, because I just love this way of working. And I just particularly this product category, absorbent hygiene products. I was really drawn to because, you know, who were the users of these products. So I was really interested in this project, obviously from the sort of circular economy waste management perspective, but also with its intersection with topics like gender and care and healthcare as well.
Ferdouse Akhter 21:32
I mean, on the gender side of things, how are you working on sanitary products or making them more reducible, reusable, recyclable?
Ayse Allison 21:38
Well, we haven't really started that work package yet. So again, I don't
Elze Porte 21:42
you have to stay tuned. You'll have to stay tuned to him.
Ferdouse Akhter 21:45
So you're working on it bit by bit. So I'm guessing is nappies and pull ups first, and then incontinence products and then sanitary
Elze Porte 21:52
Exactly. And the way the project is structured is that we take product category by product category, and take what we learn from one towards the other. So what we learn now from the systems approach we take on that piece, a lot of that we can translate into incontinence products, because the products look very similar. They're much bigger, but the materials that go in there are very similar. So this initial year that we're in now we're looking at the napis and pull ups, and then next year we'll transition that into incontinence products, and then we'll transition that into a third year where we look at sanitary products.
Ayse Allison 22:29
It's just something that I was reflecting on as Alice was explaining this, and this is something that I think we've kind of really realized the years of kind of working on these sorts of, you know, a complex interdisciplinary problems at the hub is that there really isn't such thing as a sustainable product, or even like a sustainable behavior. It's only sustainable systems. For example, you can come up with the most incredible compostable product, but if there isn't the waste stream to manage that, then it's not sustainable. The same way you can get loads of people to, you know, do a behavior that, you know is, you know, a green behavior, or sustainable behavior, by a certain type of product. But again, if there isn't the the waste stream to manage that. So I think something that we'd really want to emphasize here is that, you know, we don't really think of these products sort of as, like sustainable products, or even behaviors as sustainable behaviors we're trying to look at, well, how do we create a sustainable system? And in terms of sustainable, it's environmentally sustainable, but also economically viable, but also socially sustainable as well. So something particularly that I want to emphasize with these reusable nappies, work that we're doing at the moment with the way that the system functions. It's not really a socially sustainable behavior, perhaps for many people, because it's just it would overload them too much, it might not be economically viable. So again, it's sort of like this behavior is only truly sustainable if it works within a system. So that's just something that I wanted to highlight, because that's a really key reflection for us in the work that we do, the stuff that we've learned so far, and it really informs our thinking in terms of how we plan our future research as well.
Ferdouse Akhter 24:08
Thank you for speaking to me today. I learned so much, honestly. I learned so much about hygiene products, how wasteful things like nappies and incontinence products are. I didn't know it was that much like, what would I say two, 3% at the beginning, which is about 8 million products in the landfill sites. And you know, you always see that that reduce, reuse, recycle side, like I see it all the time, but it's good to see how that is applicable on such a biggest scale, apart from just like at the back of a bottle. So really interesting. And thank you for coming in today. Thank you. Okay, that's it. This has been held in a hand basket produced by UCL Institute of Healthcare Engineering and edited by Shakira Crawford from Waltham forests Futures Formed. What's the Institute of Healthcare Engineering? Well, let me tell you the it brings together leading researchers to develop the tools and devices that will make your life better. We're using this part. Podcast to share all the amazing work taking place, but there's so much more going on, so please check out our website@ucl.ac.uk forward slash health dash in dash a dash hand basket to find out more, and please share with your friends and family. If you found this interesting, we're available everywhere, especially where you've just listened to us.