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Edosa Odaro was most recently was Head of Data at AXA. He joins Future Talk to discuss about his experience working for over 20 international organisations, how the landscape of diversity has changed within companies in recent years, and why he deems it to be of importance to offer mentoring to students who are about to begin their professional journey.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, data, situation, organizations, technology, axa, career, big, happening, challenging, terms, jobs, broadly, opportunities, important, question, deliver, diversity, absolutely, pandemic
SPEAKERS
Amy Lourenco, Edosa Odaro
Amy Lourenco 00:06
Hi everyone, this is UCL careers podcast future talk. My name is Amy Lourenco Senior Careers Consultant at UCL. On this podcast which is powered by UCL Minds. We will be talking with professionals in different sectors about their career journeys and insights in relation to employability topics. This series is packed with guests who are change makers and innovators in their respective industries, and was created by the engineering careers team to help our students and graduates find out more about various professional experiences. Each episode will have a guest who will share their professional insights and provide valuable information relating to careers. The episodes will be available on Spotify, Apple podcast, and SoundCloud on a weekly basis. On today's episode, I'm so pleased to be able to introduce our guest Edosa Odaro. He most recently was head of data x or one of the world's largest financial services companies, and his responsibilities included dealing with data and cloud transformation. It dozer has worked with over 20 international organizations to deliver significant impact through analytic insights and intelligent interventions, including Barclays Bank, the European Commission, Lloyds Banking Group, and HMRC. He has been named Financial Times top 100 BAME leaders most influencing the technology sector, as well as amongst the 30 most influential black leaders in FinTech and data. Wow, that's an impressive list of accolades. Welcome to the podcast today. And thank you for joining us today.
Edosa Odaro 01:37
Thanks for having me, Amy. I'm pleased to be here.
Amy Lourenco 01:41
Fantastic. So my first question is you have a be a BSc in computer science and economics, as well as an MSc in business innovation and international technology Management. Did you have any work experience during your studies whether this was technical or non technical, which helped inform your long term career plans?
Edosa Odaro 02:03
Yes, good question. I did have some work experience that actually, I actually did the Birkbeck part time Master's. So at the time, I was actually first half of it I was at Barclays group, doing actually running a very large data program, this is just post the the big crash or the big financial crisis, where either way Lehman Brothers crashed and sent the rest of the, of the financial system into, into chaos. So I was I was there in that program of work, but also, actually the second year transitioning to work working for the European Commission out in Helsinki. So I think, you know, for me, when I think about what I did, through that actual program it was incredible, actually, how interlace all kind of was. I found an opportunity to, you know, I was sitting there trying to use data that the actual program at Barclays was, how does data actually help mitigate the risk of the financial system crisis as we, as we saw in 2007 2008. And so actually, at that point, you know, I was I was actually halfway through my program, I thought, would it be great to actually research this topic almost. And and actually, I wrote my dissertation about that. So I think it really did inform that work experience really did inform what I ended up doing. But also, in some ways, you can think about the the actual study feed into what I did next, as well. So yes, indeed, they actually kind of work both ways.
Amy Lourenco 03:58
Fabulous. So that sounds like that you were doing some experience during your masters. And then that experience then informs your master's dissertation is, is that what you meant?
Edosa Odaro 04:10
Indeed, yes, indeed, I think what happened was, when I started off, my real interest in business innovation was really about creativity. I've been working in, in data for well, to now over 20 years, I think, at the time was about 15. And it was incredible, you know, to go through working in data as consultant as well, actually so that was very, very interesting. And that meant that experienced quite a number of very different types of organizations, actually. But it was a thread and that thread was there was I felt there was a lot more that could be done from creative standpoint, really linking data back to what an organization was actually about and what he was actually trying to achieve with detail. So that was that was my initial view in jumping into the program? I think the program actually delivered that I think it was almost, I suppose you don't consider financial crisis, good fortune, but in some ways that informs some of what I then focused on in terms of my, my research, and partly through the the actor program.
Amy Lourenco 05:24
Fabulous. And so it sounds like you were obviously data's relatively new kind of sector, but it sounds like you were really working in it from almost the beginning of that kind of boom and kind of data and data science.
Edosa Odaro 05:38
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. You know, the data is kind of new, and it kind of isn't, you know, so if you look at it, like I tend to, quite fundamentally, I mean, it's it's almost everything that we do, you know, we think about it, it's really about, like what we're doing right now exchanging data if you'd like in terms of voice into, and obviously exchanging information, that reason on the pin by data, but you can think of it from Well, certainly way back then, you know, we didn't have big data. So when I started out, we didn't have AI. But actually, there was always data fundamentally underpin organizations. If there was one thing that was quite different at the time, aside from obviously, the big advancements in technology that we see today, is that there's a certain increase in awareness of where data sets are what is capable of delivering into organisations and what value it actually kind of underpins. So I think that's been quite fundamental in terms of a difference, but also isn't there's no denying, there's been a significant technology revolution over over the years. And we're seeing some of that happening right now. Your work right before our very eyes. So it's an exciting time, actually, with your data and also within technology more broadly.
Amy Lourenco 07:06
Great, thank you very much. And I'm looking at your career, you've worked with quite big companies from AXA to Barclays to Sky, what do you think your experience has been working in such sort of established businesses? And are there any particular benefits you would identify?
Edosa Odaro 07:24
Yeah, I've been I've been sort of alluded to that I've been quite fortunate actually. And I think part of that was that I did some consulting, prior to two acts, actually, I think I think my, you know, like saving very, very fortunate. And that I hadn't only worked within big and, you know, like, the kinds of x established organizations, like you mentioned, but also, actually, more recently, I did some work with a startup called theory and practice. So literally, the likely antithesis is the opposite of the large ones. And I've done lots in between these two extremes as well, I think, I think in terms of very specifically, the large organizations, there's a huge amount of benefit in working within such organisations. But the one thing that he does, too, is it gives you a sense of scale, you know, it gives you a sense that, you know, not only have you got scale, in terms of your ability to execute in terms of your ability to actually get access to capital to to get things done. But it gives you a different, almost the opposite side of scale, which is that you're you're having to navigate through quite a big engine, a big machine, which, which also comes with, you know, I suppose a number of challenges trying to, you know, sort of stare quite quite a large ship. So it does come with lots of advantages. But also lots of challenges as well.
Amy Lourenco 09:03
Fantastic. And so obviously, in your last role, AXA head of data, you must have had quite big teams to manage, did you?
Edosa Odaro 09:15
I did, I did, actually. So at AXA, I started off, I think I think at the time when I got in about 2016, there was about 80 odd people, but but at the time, it wasn't I suppose he couldn't have called it a single team. So it was quite, it was quite spread out at a time. We're just coming together. The number of entities, business entities coming together to actually it's a bit of an organizational restructure, if you like. And so yes, when I did take over our as bringing together so are these, you know, teams and groups people at the time to form a single unit. And yeah, it was it was incredible. You know, I think we ended up over 100 probably about 110 120 people in the team, but that was all split out into various specialist functions as well. So, you know, we had data engineers there, we had data architects, were people in the operational side of things. I, we ran our systems 24. Seven, also had before in the sort of data governance and assurance sort of area, and the data platforms area as well. So it was it was very, very interesting times, at AXA.
Amy Lourenco 10:33
And with such a large team, do you get to do any technical work yourself? Or is it all kind of sort of line management and, you know, managing other people that are doing the technical work?
Edosa Odaro 10:46
Good question. Because, you know, you think you've got 100 people to manage, I mean, not not directly is he was kind of, you can imagine, there's a bit of a structure to that. So I had a kind of head of engineering, the head of architectures and so on. But I think I think the thing that I, I like to do, and I think I recommend people to, in that kind of situation is actually defined balances to find the right sort of intersection. So he, you know, I'm not quite the kind of sort of leader who goes in and must know everything, this kind of going on and get involved, because actually, if you think about doing that, with 100, people, you can be hacked is inevitable, really, that you become the bottleneck, isn't it? I think that what I tried to do is to get in as much as I need to, and perhaps this deepest need to get in, but also knew when to step out of it and, and allow people to actually do their jobs. And that was incredible. I actually, actually, it was a, you know, there'll be times when it will be very, very intensive on the architecture side and rethink about what kind of platforms we're going to look to deploy how we're going to get to all to connect, in what sort of order we're going to do things. And even coming up with some of our own, I suppose, bespoke principles of architecting data, which was kind of a little bit outside of the, of the kind of standard across the industry. So that was really exciting. But also doing things differently, you see, with engineering and using different types of techniques and platforms. And and at times, it was really about how do we make our systems more stable? You know, for instance, in the operational side, I mean, we're doing some very, very critical work. And like I say, it's 24/7 s, most of that was customer facing, and as you know, insurance is quite important in people's lives. So we operations are very, very critical. So it was very changeable, you know, at times, you're deep in one area. And other times you don't, you're onto something else. But it was a very exciting time, actually. And something I highly recommend to anyone who's looking into that kind of leadership role.
Amy Lourenco 13:00
Must have been challenging, keeping abreast of what everyone's doing. And as you say, getting that balance, right, between sort of management and understanding what everyone's doing without kind of micromanaging, or, as you said, being a bottleneck at challenging role.
Edosa Odaro 13:18
It is quite challenging Amy, I think that I think that's something that a lot of people actually struggle with, even even sort of I say, you know, in my, in my situation, I was there as head of people at various levels actually did the same actually struggled. So people who were, say, managers or heads of specific functions, or even team leaders sometimes struggle to get that balance. Right. And it was it was always, you know, it was an evolving kind of story. And I think what we did particularly well, was to be quite empowering, to really allow people express themselves and allow people to, to feel confidence in their, you know, the boundaries of their decision making. So that was really, really, really powerful. I think that was something that delivered for us significant benefits. So So I was very happy with that sort of approach.
Amy Lourenco 14:17
Brilliant. And so my next question kind of relates to the current situation in terms of Coronavirus. And obviously, with your experience and kind of like your long career history, I wondered whether you could give any advice to students or recent graduates and tell them what they should be doing at a time where the job market is so challenging?
Edosa Odaro 14:40
Yes, so, incredibly good question about pertinent as well. Amy, you know, I when I think about this current situation is so challenging is it's such a difficult time. It's I suppose, when I think back three, four years. This is the kind of situation that we talked about, could happen in, say, 10 -20 years time with thought, you know, there could be a radical shift in the job market that could be a loss of automation come in, there could be a lot of shifts in the kinds of knowledge and capabilities, people needed to be able to remain useful and not in a market and the job market. What we've seen in the last few sort of weeks and months is that change has come. So suddenly, I mean, I was speaking to a big sort of retail executive the other day, and he's saying to me, I think it was something like the kinds of transformations that they thought would happen in five years that had to do within five weeks. So it's incredible to see that. And I imagine with people coming out to university, or perhaps still in university looking to, to careers that can actually embark on, this would be a very difficult time, what I would say is, you know, a couple of things, I would say, first of all, there are opportunities, there are opportunities out there. Perhaps the the kinds of situation where there's opportunities might be that they're not in the, in the in the places you might expect to see them. So the shape of jobs is changing, the way that jobs are put out is changing, but also the market of jobs and, and talent is changing as well. The the key things that change around that would be things like for instance, the ability now for organizations to look more broadly. So when I look a couple of years ago, it was very much, you know, I needed to have headcount see in London, or it had to be in, you know, in Glasgow, or wherever it was. And now you can be a lot more flexible now as an organization. So I think that what I say to people is, in the same way, as organizations are able to be more flexible, I would say you should be thinking in the same way, and looking at Can I do things slightly differently? Can I look at jobs that weren't seeing in my neighborhood, or even in this country as an example, which might allow some flexibility. But the other thing I'll say, as well is, you know, ultimately, I know we get used to a certain way, I could say things have been pretty much the way they were for years and years and changed him a lot more gradually. But the other thing that's happened, of course, at the moment is that that change has come quite extreme. And in, in thinking about what has changed, I think what people need to be thinking about is, is that the market is always a demand or supply situation. And, you know, what really should be doing is looking at, where's demand shifted to now? For instance, when I talk to recruiters, what they say to me is this, all for the pandemic, there's, there's, there's been a huge demand, if you'd like for people within the digital technology stand in a sort of a parts of, of technology. And this has always been there as well. It's always been like a mainstay. So I'd say, you know, are there situations of people out there who could pivot their experience of careers towards those areas of high demand, so it'd be an important thing to do as well. But the third thing I just add to that is that when we go through situations where we things don't quite go to plan, you know, things aren't as suppose we fail to get, you know, either get an interview or get a job, I have to go through a whole process, I think we should just realize that that failure doesn't mean that we're not able to to succeed, eventually, I think we should just be able to think about more broadly about opportunities, and the options that we have. And and just think more broadly, I think that's eventually we'll get there.
Amy Lourenco 19:06
Thank you. Those are three really, really important points. Those are three really important points you mentioned there. So firstly, about thinking broadly about and and flexibly about your location. Secondly, can you kind of pivot to where there's more demand? And, you know, you mentioned there's been a lot of demand and kind of the tech and IT sector and we've not seen those sectors suffer as much due to COVID. And thirdly, it's kind of that resilience piece, isn't it? Like keep up keep on going even though you're in you're struggling to find things or you might experience failure?
Edosa Odaro 19:41
And yeah, absolutely. I think I think what what I say to that is really just you know, it's not nothing personal, you know, is you know, when there's more people after, after fewer jobs, the chances are that you might have to try it a little bit harder to get the opportunities is not really about you. It's just the market at the moment. So just keep going.
Amy Lourenco 20:05
Thank you so much. And my fourth question is, so you were your mentor Birbeck where you gained your MSC, and you've been involved in helping students as part of the mentoring scheme with guidance about career development? Is there any advice you would share with students and graduates who would like to reach out into industry professionals like yourself to establish connections or to gain insight about their experiences?
Edosa Odaro 20:29
Well, first and foremost, I would say, do it, you know, reach out, it's really important. And I think just, you know, it kind of touches on what I just sort of alluded to there just now, in terms of resilience, you know, we've got lots of opportunities these days to use platforms like LinkedIn, you know, get in there get involved, you know, you you know, and be be be creative. I think, you know, if you reach out and you want to be connect with somebody in a more traditional way, in LinkedIn, it may or may not work. If it doesn't, it's not about you might just be volume as well, there might be getting lots of interest. Don't hesitate to follow, if you can't connect directly. But also get involved. Sometimes people get the most unexpected sorts of interactions, just through getting involved in conversations, is there something that the person is saying or publishing out there that, you know, someone who you're interested in is talking about that you want to get involved in that conversation? That could be the connection. But also, they're more kind of traditional ways. Like, like we mentioned, the mentoring, you know, with Birkbeck get involved and that sort of thing. It's really, really helpful. I mean, one of the guys I've mentored he, at the time, he was really thinking about what happens next in his career. I mean, he's now out there working in Google is one of the, you know, top kind of, is very sought after, gentlemen. And, and we've kept in touch in self understanding as well. And I think that, you know, sometimes illegal conversation can actually shift, you know, how you look at things I perceive your career and kind of going forward. And so what I would say would be that, you know, use platforms like LinkedIn, but don't stop at just the traditional features of LinkedIn, like a general sort of connection. I'd say, Get in, use the follow, interact during conversations and, and try and get in that way as well. That'll be my recommendation.
Amy Lourenco 22:42
Sounds like a really fabulous experience being a mentor, and especially when you get to see the progression and the journeys of people and your and your mentees. That must have been wonderful for you. It it is. And I think it's incredible. And I think that it's, you know, I mentioned, one of those cases, there's been a number of situations, some of them formal, for instance, that the backpack situation, but there's been a number of informal situations as well, it's reasonably open. Of course, we haven't, unfortunately, got on limited bandwidth. But I've haven't shied away from people getting involved, and wanting to have conversations, and they've taken all sorts of different shapes and forms. And I've been quite fortunate to, to make that contribution. But I also gain significant benefit as well, from this compensation plan. I'd learned lots, lots of people who I track with, as well. So yes, indeed, very, very beneficial. situation. Yeah, and rewarding as well.
Edosa Odaro 23:53
Indeed, very rewarding, I have to have to have to admit, and I think a lot of people, perhaps don't realize this, but he certainly is a two way street when you get involved in this sort of relationships. And for this is at a time. Last year when I was at government a bit of a sabbatical, I've left AXA, I had this same same gentleman in Google trying to convince me to come into Google, and going out there and searching for these opportunities, again, me to talk to people, because he's become quite influential within Google at the moment. So not only was it beneficial, a point of having those interactions during mentorship. The tables have almost literally turned now and he's in this situation where he can actually be quite influential in what happens for the future. So it's a great opportunity, actually.
Amy Lourenco 24:48
That's amazing. Yeah. And just shows you the power of the network isn't there, how he's then become part of your professional network and, and is able to help you out as well.
Edosa Odaro 24:57
Absolutely.
Amy Lourenco 24:59
Fabulous.So my next question is that I understand you were named Financial Times, top 100 beam leaders and most implementing the technology sector in 2019. And you've spoken about diversity, both at events and in videos you created, how have you seen the landscape within diversity of companies change in the last few years?
Edosa Odaro 25:21
It's very topical. I suppose the question is, you know, this thing about diversity, I think about it of course, quite traditionally is, you know, in terms of how the mainstream mindset is an in that is very much about making sure we get more space, difference, within organization, get more women involved, get more ethnic minorities involved, and such, like, but I take a slightly even broader view than that, because when I think back, for instance, to my time at AXA, I wasn't necessarily sitting there looking for some sort of quota system of a number of women, I needed to have a number of ethnic minorities, I need to have excetera, within my team, but what I was very keen to do was to say, two things. First, was, what sort of situations would actually deliver the best outcomes for the organization? And when I think about that, you know, I think the key thing for us was to create space for innovation, for creativity. And, you know, when I, when we looked at that we looked, and we realized that the more I suppose, difference in opinion and difference in over 89 ideas that we got, the more creativity we're able to leverage. And so if you almost think about it from from that viewpoint of actually different, you know, sort of mindsets, differences of backgrounds, difference or personalities, actually leads to more creativity and creative outcomes. But beyond that, I think the other thing to think about as well, is that just bringing these different minds and different backgrounds together, doesn't actually deliver the goods, I think the thing that I find is that the real thing that delivers the goods is enabling this people as they come in, as come together to actually have a voice to actually make that contribution, not just to give books to God, this quarter of diversity within a team. And that's something that should we take for granted. Really, I think somebody will refer to that as as inclusion. Right? I think inclusion is probably I would almost argue, more important and more fundamental than diversity. Because if you didn't have inclusion, if you didn't have, you know, the kind of environment where people feel able to make a contribution, that is almost pointless. Having diversity becomes a tick box sort of exercise. But well, what has really changed it over time, I think, is that I think we move in and it's not a black or white sort of situation if, you know, literally, I think that it's really a sliding scale. I think what's what I find has been happening to it over time, is that we're moving further away from rhetoric now into actually tangibly doing things. And I think there's a realization of the benefits as well thinking this way across organizations. I think that's what's changing. Yeah, it's definitely been a shift, hasn't it?
Amy Lourenco 28:50
I think it's really interesting what you're saying about inclusion, they're being the more important thing, I guess, in a way, that means that people feel comfortable to bring their whole selves to work, and that they feel valued to make make a contribution and have something to say so that you can have that sort of creative environment.
Edosa Odaro 29:08
Absolutely, absolutely. I think that's sometimes taking for granted. You know, I think, I think that, you know, without having that this is to two big challenges, actually, if you if you don't have inclusion, clearly, those people you have whatever level of diversity that is because it's, of course, an imperfect and imperfect sort of situation really can't ever get 100% diversity, there's any such such thing. So you're always going to have so so some way when we sat somewhere on that scale, if we like have been zero to 100. But I think that regards to what you've got internally, whether that's as diversity in terms of backgrounds, if that is in terms of an agenda, or or such like, the real sort of underpinning in terms of what's good to enable that So situation to flourish is his inclusion is being able to people have been feeling safe in making that contribution in voicing their opinions and feeling part of what was actually going on. But the other thing as well is, if you don't have it an environment that promotes innovation, the other thing as well is that if you don't have an environment that is actually inclusive, the challenge that you face is that people who are quite diverse in their minds, and quite diverse in their backgrounds, are less likely to want to get involved in that kind of organization, or in that kind of situation, oh, even if they did get involved, there's a big chance, actually, that you kind of get a situation of some apathy, and people just not being interested and just being kind of there and delivering the minimum that they can actually get away with. And that's something that I found that, you know, as we started to shift more and more towards a more empowering and inclusive environment, people upped their game and started becoming actually more more productive. So I've seen that firsthand. And I've seen that that's something that actually can make a massive, a significant difference actually, within organizations. Definitely leading to like happier and more productive stuff, I guess. Absolutely. And the other thing that happens with staff as well, and in those situations is that you get a significant uplift in well being. And let's not forget, that's a very big thing. And thankfully, so these days, a lot more talk about not just mental health vaccine, sort of mental fitness and mental well being. And when you're in that kind of situation where you feel empowered, when you feel recognized, when you feel acknowledged, it does have a positive impact on your on your mental well being.
Amy Lourenco 32:03
Absolutely. And so with all that in mind, is there anything in particular that you advise students and graduates who want to be an advocate for and an ally to the underrepresented in different industries or companies, they might end up working for?
Edosa Odaro 32:22
Yes, I, I do have some advice. I think I think that one of the things that I find is, and you know, I'll do, the advice I give would be the way I kind of approach things myself, I think the key thing for me is being open. And by that I mean being open minded. And the way I'm able to try to achieve that is by is by listening, listening to not just what people say, but actually where they're coming from, what are their concerns? What are the fears? what's what's different about what they're saying? But also, I think, was quite important as well. And I think some people are, I think there's certainly been a shift in that sort of listening more broadly, people are seem to be more open to to diverse views these days. But I think the other aspect of that as well is also to listen to ourselves, what are our fears? What is it that we are concerned about? In that idea we're hearing or in that sort of that difference. And kind of deal with that, you know, you kind of need to confront those, these fears that we have internally. Because I think that's a lot of what I found either over the years, is that we kind of conceal a lot of our concerns and a lot of our fears. And that acts almost as a barrier for us to we're sitting there wanting to listen and wanting to hear, but we're unable to process what we're seeing and what we're hearing, because we have internal concerns, and internal fears of our own. So I'd say those two things are really, really important to listen to what's kind of out there, be open to what's kind of out there, but also listen to ourselves and actually be quite honest and confront our own concerns and our own fears.
Amy Lourenco 34:20
Great, thank you very much. And my last question is what would you say are the key skills necessary to succeed in your industry?
Edosa Odaro 34:30
Yes, so I think I think for me Yeah, this you know, there's so much going on at the moment is so much in terms of technology is seeing that of course we've got the cloud and all the services on the planet you know, it's a such a minefield of technologies days and changes also happening quite rapidly. So I'm not going to sit here and and dish out technology lessons necessary. But what I will say is that I think the one, if there was one thing that I think is absolutely essential, given where we are in the world today, and given where we are, even pre pandemic, is that the attitude to to change and to learn in need soon, it needs to be quite central to how we think about ourselves. I think in the old days, what would have happened is you go into university, you pick out what it is you want to be, and, and that's kind of job done, you graduate, and you're in that field. And that's kind of it, perhaps, for your entire career. And what's happening now, I mean, the trend is that the lifespan of have gained knowledge and gain gain skills is shrinking, you know, almost on a daily basis, and we're seeing a massive shrinkage of that, due to the pandemic as well. So I'd say the one thing that's really going to be essential, especially, especially certain tech tech technology, where we're not seeing this very rapid change, and, you know, it's not enough to just learn one programming language or learn one, on a scale of one technology, we've got to be open to change, and Gabi open to what's different, and have that almost continuous learning kind of attitude, really. And if we do have that, I think we're in a really good place. And I think that, you know, we're in, we're almost mitigate the risk of a pandemic, like situation happen in the future, but also, of all the kind of changes that are happening quite naturally anyway, across across technology.
Amy Lourenco 36:45
So what you're really saying there is that skills expire. And what's more important is kind of your attitudes of being flexible and resilient, and that core growth mindset of being willing to learn.
Edosa Odaro 36:58
Absolutely, you've got to be adaptable, you've got to be able to look at the market and say, Okay, so what's trending right now? What's, what's this looking like? Is this on a downward trend? Is it on an upward trend? You know, what's what's, what's kind of skills, what kinds of jobs or what kind of skills are analogous to what I know, I mean, I talk to people about people want to get into data as an example, I say to them, if you know, Excel, you can have no data. So you can actually switch from something as simple to some people beast, as Excel to really understanding what rows and columns are in a database as an example. And that could very, very quickly lead to you doing, you know, data, data science models, and machine learning and, and such likes. So, you know, I think it's really being open, being adaptable, being open to learn new skills, but a lot of these skills aren't completely new. They're like I say this in lots of things that are analogous to what we already know. And if they are, they're a lot more and more reachable. So you know, it's it's being perceptive to those changes that are happening and those opportunities that that these changes actually bring.
Amy Lourenco 38:13
Thank you. And with that in mind, so thinking about being adaptable, what's next for you today? So what are you up to? After leaving AXA? What do you do?
Edosa Odaro 38:23
A great question.' Ive had a couple of other things kind of going on. One of the things is I've been I mentioned theory and practice where I was initially doing some fractional advisory with and moved on to actually become Chief Business Officer for them a very, very Gregg's of innovative company doing AI and data transformations for large organizations around the world. But also, one of the things I spend some time doing, aside from having a baby actually, which is a great experience was, was actually writing. So as I was writing the book, which is now thankfully draft complete, I didn't realize it was such a challenge to write a book, but there you go. So so that's really good. I'm really looking forward to that being published sometime very soon. But also, I'm now kind of coming out of that sort of mini sabbatical phase and will soon be announcing my next big sort of role. So watch this space, I think I think I'll be I'll be announcing something within the next couple of weeks or so.
Amy Lourenco 39:34
Wow, exciting! It sounds like you've been busy writing a book and having a baby. Congratulations on both of those.
Edosa Odaro 39:44
Thank you. Thank you. Both very different but both quite exciting in their in their own ways.
Amy Lourenco 39:52
And working for a startup as well. I mean, definitely really busy.
Edosa Odaro 39:57
I kept myself busy. Yes, indeed.
Amy Lourenco 40:01
Well, that brings me to the end of the questions. Thank you so much for data for joining our podcast and sharing your valuable insights with our audience. Really appreciate it.
Edosa Odaro 40:11
I've enjoyed this stuff. Enjoy the conversation, and thanks for Thanks for having me. I hope that some of the things you've shared would be helpful and useful to those who listen to it.
Amy Lourenco 40:22
Absolutely, it really will be. And thank you so much to our audience for listening to this episode. Keep an eye out for more episodes, which are released weekly on audio platforms such as Spotify, Apple podcast and SoundCloud. Thanks, everyone.